Duskblade and going straight into bladesinger....

[Sejs]

A Duskblade is a better Bladesinger than the Bladesinger.


Going in to the Prc would be a waste in the same vein as trying to be the most mighty Wizard in the world by dropping 5 levels of Wizard progression to take up some levels in Bard.

 

[Question]

So would you say the PRC is underpowered then?

 

[Sejs]

So would you say the PRC is underpowered then?

To a degree, yes.

And more certainly to the point, it's bland. Lacking in flavor. Needs some fluffy little bits to hold your interest in some of those levels that are blank spaces. Not every single one necessarily, but some.

Off the top of my head, collapse Song of Celerity into a single feature, move Greater Spellsong (renamed) down the list some, and probably fill out a total of 7 of 10 class feature spaces rather than the current 5 (4, if you count the proposed SoC re-fold). My general feeling on the matter would be if you've got 1/2 spellcaster progression you need some features to balance it out. If you're got full or mostly full spellcaster progression, you need fewer features to strike that same balance.


Edit/additional: Looking at that post, BOY was I meandering off the main point. Serves me right for not sleeping. Anyway, yeah. Bladesinger's underpowered. Duskblade does the whole 'graceful fighter/mage' schtick with far more elegance, in my opinion. And it sidesteps the whole issue of being a halfassed wizard or a halfassed fighter mashed together. It's a far more seamless integration of the two, form and function.

 

[irdeggman]

If you're referring to, then it's a guideline, not a rule. Eberron has at least one prestige class that can be taken at 4th level (the Master Inquisitive).

Then they "broke" the rules. They are not guidelines (unlike 3.0). WotC "authors" tend to overlook rules a lot, especially in FR (IMO). I am somewhat surprised this one slipped by though.


DMG pg 197 under Designing Prestige Classes:

When you design a new prestige class make sure that characters must be at least 5th level before they can meet the entry requirements.

DMG II pg 205 under Design requirements (for prestige classes)

No prestige class should be attainable by a character lower than 5th level.

Neither have been erratad

 

[Klaus]

That is interesting -- where's it written? (Player's Guide to Eberron, maybe?)

Yep. Scattered about the book are little gems like this.

If you want a new take on the Bladesinger, may I suggest my own creation, the Battledancer:

http://www.fierydragon.com/db/2003-12-03.htm

It's a Fighter/Wizard mix, but attainable (and useful) for Rogue/Wizard and even for single-classed Bards.

 

[Glyfair]

Then they "broke" the rules. They are not guidelines (unlike 3.0). WotC "authors" tend to overlook rules a lot, especially in FR (IMO). I am somewhat surprised this one slipped by though.

But they aren't rules. This is just a section for how to design a prestige class. Also, note it doesn't say "Prestige classes can't be attainable by a character lower than 5th level." There are plenty of things the section says "shouldn't" be done that have been done by official classes.

 

[Klaus]

I'm not familiar with the new class.

But forcing a multiclassing option is not a requisite for prestige classes (it just seems that way at times).

Can the character qualify earlier than 4th level? (And that is based on DMG II not DMG rules which are 5th level).

If so it is broken, if not then it isn't.

No character in core D&D can qualify for Bladesinger before 5th level, since the class has a BAB requirement of +5.

Master Inquisitive Inquisitive has skill requirements of 6 ranks, tops. So a character can fulfill these at 3rd level and take the PrClass at 4th. Not gamebreaking, since the class is pretty limited in scope (detective work), but just raise one skill requirement to 8 ranks and you're back in 5th-level territory.

 

[JiCi]

Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight and Spellsword are PrCs that also need both Fighters and Wizards aspects. The duskblade gets them both.

 

[Klaus]

Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight and Spellsword are PrCs that also need both Fighters and Wizards aspects. The duskblade gets them both.

And so did the Hexblade before it.

 

[irdeggman]

But they aren't rules. This is just a section for how to design a prestige class. Also, note it doesn't say "Prestige classes can't be attainable by a character lower than 5th level." There are plenty of things the section says "shouldn't" be done that have been done by official classes.

I'm not certain how you can read the text that states (from DMG II - using latest publication as most authoritative - especially in that this is consistent with the DMG words.

"No prestige class should be attainable by a character lower than 5th level. "

or the one that states (DMG)

"When you design a new prestige class make sure that characters must be at least 5th level before they can meet the entry requirements."

as being anything but requirements.

The entire use of prestige classes is purely a DM's option, but the text pretty much states that if you use prestige classes then they should meet these requirements.

My point was that it is a requirement and that the WotC authors at times fail to read the requirements as written (if they did then we pretty much would have a very sparse Rules board here now wouldn't we?)