Duskblades & greatswords

[Nonlethal Force]

I think the big issue is if they can cast a spell and attack in the same round. And that answer should be no. Casting a spell is a standard action (unless otherwise noted by the spell description). Attacking is either a standard action or a full round action - neither of which allow anything else besides a move action. Since you can't cast a spell as a move action ... you can't cast and attack in the same round.

Now, the 3rd level class ability allows a caster to deliver any touch spell through a weapon attack and if the attack is successful the spell goes off. The class ability says nothing about reducing the somatic components of the spell or altering the rules. It simply says that you can do both in one round. Thus, the rules for casting a spell must be enforced. The character must have a free hand to cast the spell (or take the feat Somatic Weaponry from Complete Mage) to cast spells with Somatic Spell components.

There are rules governing casting with a shield. Those have been discussed above. THere are no rules for casting with a double handed weapon. If you let them do it, you are essentially giving them Somatic Weaponry for free. If you chose this option, I'd suggest adding it as a bonus feat at either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level.

Personally, I would not let it happen. There are prices to pay for fighting with a two handed weapon. You already get a huge bonus with the whole two-for-one Power Attack (and others). If you want to wield a greatsword and cast spells through it, take Somatic Weaponry.

As to being able to hold a weapon in one hand, of course I would let them do that. But in that case they may certainly cast the spell with only one hand on the weapon. They most certainly could not then attack with it.

That brings up another possibility. Take EWP(Bastard Sword). They could use it one handed or two handed depending on what they want to do. But then again, since you are taking a feat to do this, it'd just be easier to take Somatic Weaponry. That's an easy fix.

 

[Darklone]

A cleric with mace and heavy shield, say, can't cast spells with somatic components. This is frequently overlooked, perhaps, but it is not at all unclear.

-Hyp.

Right. A small shield would solve the problem, but somehow everyone who should use a small shield takes a buckler instead.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Right. A small shield would solve the problem, but somehow everyone who should use a small shield takes a buckler instead.

You mean a light shield?

RE: Duskblade. I don't have my book handy, but unless Arcane Channeling requires the weapon to be wielded, I'd allow it. If the weapon must be wielded rather than held, I'd rule no. You can hold a two-handed weapon on one hand, but must wield it with two.

That way, your wizard can still use a staff, or your druid a long spear, and cast while holding the weapon in one hand. This should only become an issue if casting a 1-round castign time spell where an opportunity to take an AoO comes up while the character is casting -- and I'd rule that since they are busy casting and are only holding their two handed weapon in one hand, they don't threaten and can't take the AoO.

 

[Christian]

That way, your wizard can still use a staff, or your druid a long spear, and cast while holding the weapon in one hand. This should only become an issue if casting a 1-round castign time spell where an opportunity to take an AoO comes up while the character is casting -- and I'd rule that since they are busy casting and are only holding their two handed weapon in one hand, they don't threaten and can't take the AoO.

I don't think a caster who's in the process of casting a full-round spell can take AoO's in any case, can he?

 

[delericho]

I rule that the Duskblade does indeed need to have a hand free (unless he has that Complete Mage feat), which essentially precludes that two-handed weapon thing. That said, the Duskblade can remove a hand from the weapon to cast the spell as a free action.

However, I do not allow the Duskblade to return his hand to the weapon as a free action - it takes a Move action to return the weapon to the guard position (or equivalent). The same also applies to characters switching from a one-handed to two-handed grip on their weapon, or vice versa (and to Wizards with quarterstaffs). The Quick Draw feat negates this requirement (and, if you have a BAB of +1 or higher, it can be combined with a move).

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't think a caster who's in the process of casting a full-round spell can take AoO's in any case, can he?

Right.

He explicitly does not threaten an area while casting a spell, per the description of the Full Round action 'Cast a Spell' in the PHB.

-Hyp.

 

[Torx]

I don't really care WHAT the reason is for the Duskblade being allowed to cast when wielding a greatsword, if that is how one wants to rule it. Just that this reason in particular (it's part of his somatic component) could lead to other problems down the road...

Granted. Good point.

Merry Christmas. Or Chanukah. Or Kwanzaa. Or belated Ramadan.

 

[Paradigm]

Now, the 3rd level class ability allows a caster to deliver any touch spell through a weapon attack and if the attack is successful the spell goes off. The class ability says nothing about reducing the somatic components of the spell or altering the rules. It simply says that you can do both in one round. Thus, the rules for casting a spell must be enforced. The character must have a free hand to cast the spell (or take the feat Somatic Weaponry from Complete Mage) to cast spells with Somatic Spell components.

Certainly a slavish obedience to the letter of the rules would certainly prevent a duskblade from casting any somatic component spells whilst bearing a shield heavier than a buckler and wielding a weapon. I think the Sage even stated such. I don't happen to think anything is gained by that interpretation, except to mandate that all Duskblades expend a feat for Somatic Weaponry.

 

[shilsen]

It is clearly stated that you can still freely hold a two handed weapon with one hand, you just can't make an attack with it that way. Thereby, the Duskblade can simply release one of his hands from gripping the weapon (Which really should be a free action) and then return his grip after the spell is completed.

That's how I rule it and how the DM in the game I play a Duskblade rules it.

I'm surprised at the contention here, in all honesty.

Don't visit the rules forum that much, I see

Letting the Duskblade function as the class intended is hardly what I'd start to consider unbalancing.

Agreed.

 

[Quolyte]

Now, the 3rd level class ability allows a caster to deliver any touch spell through a weapon attack and if the attack is successful the spell goes off. The class ability says nothing about reducing the somatic components of the spell or altering the rules. It simply says that you can do both in one round. Thus, the rules for casting a spell must be enforced. The character must have a free hand to cast the spell (or take the feat Somatic Weaponry from Complete Mage) to cast spells with Somatic Spell components.

I think one point that seems to be overlooked is that the spell isn't really being cast. I don't have the text in front of me but I believe the wording is similar to what Nonlethal Force mentions above. The Duskblade can deliver any touch spell through a weapon attack, it doesn't implicit say that he's casting it, just delivering it. Keep in mind the ability does not provoke an AoO, so it doesn't follow the same mechanics as a normal spell.