Dwarf power-ups: Good or bad?
- Thread starter Branduil
- Start date
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Depends on which ones get confirmed and are really in.
If all of them ... pushing overpowered, but maybe not there yet.
Stability probably won't come into play much.
The movement enhancement will definitely be good for dwarven fighters, clerics, and paladins -- but they'll still be the only medium sized race with a max normal movement rate of 20 (equal to a human in heavy armor).
Weapon familiarity with the Waraxe is definitely good (though not nearly as good as the elven sword/bow proficiency).
IME darkvision and the spell saving throw bonus are a dwarf's best abilities; the others don't come into play consistently enough, or are very campaign-dependent.
If dwarves get all these, though, they really need to throw half-elves a bone.
If all of them ... pushing overpowered, but maybe not there yet.
Stability probably won't come into play much.
The movement enhancement will definitely be good for dwarven fighters, clerics, and paladins -- but they'll still be the only medium sized race with a max normal movement rate of 20 (equal to a human in heavy armor).
Weapon familiarity with the Waraxe is definitely good (though not nearly as good as the elven sword/bow proficiency).
IME darkvision and the spell saving throw bonus are a dwarf's best abilities; the others don't come into play consistently enough, or are very campaign-dependent.
If dwarves get all these, though, they really need to throw half-elves a bone.
Cedric
First Post
I have to admit something though...I know very few people who play Dwarves. So while statistically they are more then fine...maybe they did need an enhancement.
Of course, I keep hoping that WOTC is just yanking our chain about the half-elf thing and really do plan to upgrade them.
Cedric
Of course, I keep hoping that WOTC is just yanking our chain about the half-elf thing and really do plan to upgrade them.
Cedric
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
I just ran an adventure that included a poisonous monster. The barbarian dwarf made his save by ONE - if it weren't for that Prayer spell he would have failed.
That +2 bonus vs poison and spells is real sweet...
That +2 bonus vs poison and spells is real sweet...
Cedric said:
I play in a campaign where people constantly play dwarves (and not so much becauses they like dwarves than they like what the dwarf has to offer). Myself included, in fact. Elves are rare. Only seen one halflng (mine) and one gnome played since 3e. No half-elves.
Stability--a fairly meager feature. Just added on a whim?
Weapon Familiarity--The purpose behind WF Familiarity has yet to be explained by any D&D designer in any interview I'm aware of. Maybe if I understood the rationale behind introducing it into the game, I'd like the idea better. As it is, all the reasons I've heard conjectured by fellow gamers are wanting. It's especially pointless when you consider they're only applying it to the dwarf (discounting the gnome's and their hook-hammer).
The ability to move as fast as other Medium-sized creatures in heavy armor mitigates the one drawback dwarves had that more-or-less balanced-out all the other numerous advantages they already had. I can see where a dwarf creeping along at 15ft can be problematic, but the dwarf has enough features that there needs to be some give and take at this point, not just give give give.
Bottom-line: it makes no sense to leave the other races virtually untouched, while enhancing the race that already had the most enhancements.
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Buttercup
Princess of Florin
I don't care about stability much. The weapon proficiencies, on the other hand, make a great deal of sense to me.
But what I really want to know is, are half-elves still gonna get the shaft? It sure looks that way, and I don't get it. I mean, why tinker with dwarves and gnomes, which were playable as written, and ignore half-elves, which everyone agrees are the weakest race? What are they thinking?
But what I really want to know is, are half-elves still gonna get the shaft? It sure looks that way, and I don't get it. I mean, why tinker with dwarves and gnomes, which were playable as written, and ignore half-elves, which everyone agrees are the weakest race? What are they thinking?
MadScientist
First Post
Being a Dwarf player (I like dwarves both mechanically and RP wise) I really don't think they need any more boosts.
Darkvision is a great ability, easily equal to a feat.
The +2 save vs. magic is better than any of the +2 save feats IMHO (Usually when you are making a save its versus some sort of magic).
+2 Con/ -2 Cha is a very generous trade off. Charisma is usually a dump stat and Constitution is a great stat boost for any class!
On top of these three very good abilities they get stonecunning, the +4 AC vs giants, +1 Atk vs gobliniods (which I always seem to forget
), +2 poison save.... etc, etc.
Their only real disadvantage is the 20' move! While annoying it's not tremendous. Giving them the WF Dwarven waraxe, and no move penalty in heavy armor makes is just silly. Mechanically there would be no reason NOT to make dwarven fighter that weilds a Dwarven waraxe. (Assuming you are making a figter type of course.)
Darkvision is a great ability, easily equal to a feat.
The +2 save vs. magic is better than any of the +2 save feats IMHO (Usually when you are making a save its versus some sort of magic).
+2 Con/ -2 Cha is a very generous trade off. Charisma is usually a dump stat and Constitution is a great stat boost for any class!
On top of these three very good abilities they get stonecunning, the +4 AC vs giants, +1 Atk vs gobliniods (which I always seem to forget
), +2 poison save.... etc, etc.Their only real disadvantage is the 20' move! While annoying it's not tremendous. Giving them the WF Dwarven waraxe, and no move penalty in heavy armor makes is just silly. Mechanically there would be no reason NOT to make dwarven fighter that weilds a Dwarven waraxe. (Assuming you are making a figter type of course.)
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I don't think Dwarves were that mighty before, and they certainly won't be unbalanced with these minor additions, especially if they update other races respectively.
Honestly, even with all these adjustments, a dwarf can exist right alongside an elf or a halfling and not dominate in the slightest. And they're still not the obvious best choice for race.
Though I do think the Half-Elf needs a bit of something...instead of those meagre +1's, perhaps the human 'extra skills' would be a nice addition.
Honestly, even with all these adjustments, a dwarf can exist right alongside an elf or a halfling and not dominate in the slightest. And they're still not the obvious best choice for race.
Though I do think the Half-Elf needs a bit of something...instead of those meagre +1's, perhaps the human 'extra skills' would be a nice addition.
Myconid Sage
First Post
No, I don't think the changes in 3.5 make them anymore powerful than they already are in 3.0. Dwarves are all ready the second best race for a fighter, imo, only the human makes a better one. That extra feat is just to good!
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