Dwarven subraces
- Thread starter Carpe DM
- Start date
iwatt
First Post
Carpe DM said:
None comes to mind. But you could talk to your DM about allowing you to take the axe-throwing feat from races of faerun. It let's you add strength to ranged attack bonus instead of dex. It works for throwing axes and hammers. I used this and the Gold Dwarf. If you miss the AC, take Divine Shield as a feat as well.
Guys-
You really cannot use Gold Dwarf (or other Dwarven subrace) with Hammer of Moradin. It has a Region prerequisite, which essentially dictates Shield Dwarf since that is the only type in Spine of the World. (I suppose you could make an argument for Arctic Dwarf from Frostburn, but that is not strictly part of Forgotten Realms.) For the same reason, you cannot take Axethrower since it is not available in Spine of the World for Dwarves. You could use Brutal Throw from Complete Adventurer instead, which does the same thing.
Divine Shield is a good idea.
You really cannot use Gold Dwarf (or other Dwarven subrace) with Hammer of Moradin. It has a Region prerequisite, which essentially dictates Shield Dwarf since that is the only type in Spine of the World. (I suppose you could make an argument for Arctic Dwarf from Frostburn, but that is not strictly part of Forgotten Realms.) For the same reason, you cannot take Axethrower since it is not available in Spine of the World for Dwarves. You could use Brutal Throw from Complete Adventurer instead, which does the same thing.
Divine Shield is a good idea.
iwatt
First Post
rowport said:
You Sir, are correct.
But a lot of people use Campaign specific Prestige Classes in their homebrews. And many DMs will wave some requirements. It's good to know though about the Brutal thrower though (Don't have Comp Adv yet). But since the original post was asking for racial variants in the first palce (and I don't recall any dwarf without either dex or cha as penalty stat) I though I'd give him some ideas.
A lot of people say that the Hammer of Moradin is a "broken" class. I'm about to take my first level in this PrC so I wanted to know why there was this opinion.
iWatt-
Ah, fair point! I was responding with the assumption of Forgotten Realms in mind.
Is Hammer of Moradin considered overpowered? I had not realized that. Honestly, I took it because it was cool.
It is certainly effective as a melee specialist, but since it does not have spell progression, I would not have estimated as overpowered, personally (especially compared to other FR PrCs!) Is that the general consensus here on ENWorld? Just curious.
FWIW, I will offer my personal experience playing it (at first level so far):
The Hammer Throw ability is darn nifty. I dig the visual of a short Dwarf throwing a huge warhammer across the room! It is tactically tricky, though, since you do not yet have the Returning ability at HoM 1, and chances are that the warhammer is your main weapon. What seemed to work well for me was throwing my throwing axe instead initially to 'soften up' the opposition, closing to melee with my warhammer and laying the Holy Smackdown full attack action, then using Hammer Throw to finish off an opponent my Fighter buddy had already weakened. That way, I could retrieve my warhammer with impunity; doing so against a nearly full-strength opponent would be pretty dumb.
(I did try to charge with my hammer instead of throwing first a few times last session, but tripped on the rough terrain with my stupid low dexterity. LOL)
The Aura of Courage is great, of course, but there is a good chance you might already have it if you started as a Paladin (as I did). In my party, the Aura is really not useful to the rest of the party, since I am the only real tank and therefore out beyond the effective range for most of the other guys. I suppose that I would plan to use it more effectively if we fight an enemy with a known fear effect.
Generally, my character "feels" like a pretty typical Paladin, other than his tossing a warhammer around.
That is all I can offer for now! (I am really looking forward to the Returning ability at HoM 2, though, that will likely change my tactics quite a bit.)
Ah, fair point! I was responding with the assumption of Forgotten Realms in mind.
Is Hammer of Moradin considered overpowered? I had not realized that. Honestly, I took it because it was cool.
It is certainly effective as a melee specialist, but since it does not have spell progression, I would not have estimated as overpowered, personally (especially compared to other FR PrCs!) Is that the general consensus here on ENWorld? Just curious.FWIW, I will offer my personal experience playing it (at first level so far):
The Hammer Throw ability is darn nifty. I dig the visual of a short Dwarf throwing a huge warhammer across the room! It is tactically tricky, though, since you do not yet have the Returning ability at HoM 1, and chances are that the warhammer is your main weapon. What seemed to work well for me was throwing my throwing axe instead initially to 'soften up' the opposition, closing to melee with my warhammer and laying the Holy Smackdown full attack action, then using Hammer Throw to finish off an opponent my Fighter buddy had already weakened. That way, I could retrieve my warhammer with impunity; doing so against a nearly full-strength opponent would be pretty dumb.
(I did try to charge with my hammer instead of throwing first a few times last session, but tripped on the rough terrain with my stupid low dexterity. LOL) The Aura of Courage is great, of course, but there is a good chance you might already have it if you started as a Paladin (as I did). In my party, the Aura is really not useful to the rest of the party, since I am the only real tank and therefore out beyond the effective range for most of the other guys. I suppose that I would plan to use it more effectively if we fight an enemy with a known fear effect.
Generally, my character "feels" like a pretty typical Paladin, other than his tossing a warhammer around.
That is all I can offer for now! (I am really looking forward to the Returning ability at HoM 2, though, that will likely change my tactics quite a bit.)
iwatt
First Post
rowport said:Honestly, I took it because it was cool.
That makes 2 of us. I did talk my DM into allowing the Axe-thrower feat (and I took the Gold dwarf option as well). But that's what I do. I take a concept and then try to make him as effective as I can. I also try to generate a nice backstory for my DM, who then forgives my powergaming ( ate least a bit
). Mored, my Dwarf paladin, is the scion of a long family of dwarven heroes. Dragon slayers, drow hunters, aboleth killers, etc.. So he has this whole hero image to liev up to. For added plot hook goodnes though, Mored's father betrayed the clan and tried to kill the king. So Mored feels that he must somehow regain the honor of the family. In our current adventure, the party has tracked down a lycanthrope lair, were apparently the Black-Axe (evil father that he is) has joined with the forces of ABSOLUTE EVIL TM. I see a duel coming up :\ .Slightly off topic: I think all dwarves should have +2 Con, -2 Dex. The -2 Cha has the feel of a sacred cow to me. A tough but not very limber dwarf is what I've always pictures.
Yup. I really stress the honor of the clan aspect with my Dwarf Pally. I do like my insanely high (for a tank) will save though (+2 Iron will, +3 Cha, +2 Class, +2 dwarf vs spells)=+9.
Yes, this was intended for a homebrew, most likely. I should have been explicit. Although I also don't see why a Gold Dwarf couldn't be from the specified area. Lots of migrants after the Thunder Blessing, of course. But that's neither here nor there.
I was interested in the conception of Hammer of Moradin as overpowered. I don't see it. I can make far scarier melee specialists...
The design to date was fighter 4 / cleric 4 (Dwarf Subst. level 4), Battlesmith 1, Hammer of Moradin 10.
That gives weapon specialization, hammer specialization, one with the hammer, divine might, and your strength times 1.5 to add to your damage. Not too slouchy -- assuming Str. 18, Cha. 16, and Wis. 16, you're looking at +16 damage on a hammer swing. Not the best, but not terrible.
Any thoughts?
best,
Carpe
I was interested in the conception of Hammer of Moradin as overpowered. I don't see it. I can make far scarier melee specialists...
The design to date was fighter 4 / cleric 4 (Dwarf Subst. level 4), Battlesmith 1, Hammer of Moradin 10.
That gives weapon specialization, hammer specialization, one with the hammer, divine might, and your strength times 1.5 to add to your damage. Not too slouchy -- assuming Str. 18, Cha. 16, and Wis. 16, you're looking at +16 damage on a hammer swing. Not the best, but not terrible.
Any thoughts?
best,
Carpe
If you want to go the fighter/cleric route, I think your build is a great approach- getting weapon specialization is *very* useful since he will nearly always use his hammer, for both melee and thrown (less often, of course). If you would rather go the paladin route, you could still get WS through the Pious Templar PrC (Complete Divine) and pick up Mettle in the bargain. That is the build that I am playing now. (And, giving proper credit where due, I got the Pious Templar idea as a suggestion *right here on ENWorld*!) 
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