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<blockquote data-quote="Binder Fred" data-source="post: 6678163" data-attributes="member: 63746"><p>As seen IC, I think I'll be taking over Vindar for now, if that's alright? Haven't decided on a class yet (can't quite cut the paladin's requirements, unfortunetly) so I'm leaning towards either Fighter or Cleric (since he's been continually bathed in healing spells since his capture)... Is Thurm Thermax an option? I'm thinking his main motivation might eventually be to ascend, like Thurm, and "do it right", this time. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>What about you, Leif? Any of the presented options tickle your fancy?</p><p></p><p><a href="http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302" target="_blank">Stats: 3D6 = [4, 6, 4] = 14</a></p><p><a href="http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302" target="_blank">3D6 = [2, 5, 2] = 9</a></p><p><a href="http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302" target="_blank">3D6 = [3, 1, 4] = 8</a></p><p><a href="http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302" target="_blank">3D6 = [4, 6, 6] = 16</a></p><p><a href="http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302" target="_blank">3D6 = [3, 1, 6] = 10</a></p><p><a href="http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302" target="_blank">3D6 = [5, 6, 3] = 14</a></p><p><a href="http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302" target="_blank"></a></p><p></p><p>It's up to Gargrim now, but that ship has sailed as far as I'm concerned.</p><p></p><p>[sblock=Opinions and such]In general, I think we understand what 'negotiating/bargaining' entails differently, I think. To me it means: high demand, followed by low counter offer (AKA opening positions); then bargain hard until you meet somewhere in the middle.</p><p></p><p></p><p>These two statements seem contradictory: setting 3 dwarfs free is no big deal to his defenses, but setting 1 dwarf free is potential disaster? </p><p></p><p>If giving over 12 axes over was really going to so completely convince them of the group's good faith, then asking for some sort of advance-in-kind/security for the first dwarf seems like a natural counter to me (Midgrim had already offered his own axe for him, after all). Breaking off negotiations while singing a chorus of "I am evil" and torturing people right in front of the party, joking about eating his prisoners alive.... Maybe not so much of a smart move if he knew anytghing about dwarven tempers?</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you straight-agree to anything, they'll think they low-balled it and come back with demands for more. </p><p></p><p><shrug> Plus, Midgrim was a dwarf. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>The fact that Midgrim <em>did</em> negotiate that first one down should have been a strong indication to Sigur that he was going to try to do the same against his much higher demands, I would have thought... That's sort of the whole point of doing it in the first place.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Insulted I can certainly understand (although Sigur's extreme reaction to that (unintended) insult sort of makes me doubt his own commitment to making a deal). The second bit doesn't quite click though. When you negotiate in bad faith, you can simply agree to whatever price the other wants, since you have no intention of paying anyway. You only negotiate hard when you *do* intend to pay.</p><p></p><p>If Sigur suspected foul play, he should have been, on the contrary, highly suspicious of any easy agreement to his demands (clearly, to his mind, designed to get him to release that one dwarf and his dangerous inside information (whatever that was)).</p><p></p><p>[Snip the rest]</p><p></p><p>In general, I'd say that it might be entirely justifiable and possible for Sigur to decide to throw the whole negotiations down the toilet on an imagined insult (You did get that Midgrim did not intend it to be an insult at all, right? That was his opening gambit in what he expected to be protracted, hardball negotiations). Same thing for that firebomb glyph to exist. The thing is, you control the world, so you can use the same logic to justify just about anything: dragons on the 1st level, suddenly collapsing ceilings, it's ALL possible, probable and/or 'realistic'... But it's just as easy to justify Sigur shattering that flask on the ground behind him to cover his exit in a wall of flames (no glyphs needed), or going for a lesser show of temper when 'insulted', if he really did want/need this deal. Going for the worst case outcome should be a last recourse, IMHO : these things are hard enough as it is.</p><p></p><p>Having Sigur cut-down Midgrim would have been entirely justifiable in my book (and actually expected/dreaded when he charged in). That would have been a good death, of his own choosing, battling senseless evil and defending his dwarven kin against the same. In comparison, planting a glyphed firebomb on an opponent that already outmatches the entire party, just so it can inevitably blow up in their faces in the unlikely event a 1st level party somehow DOES heroically defeat and/or rout/outmaneuver a 4th level boss... is a sad death, that cannot help but feel like an arbitrary punishment.</p><p></p><p>I hope you can see the difference.[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Binder Fred, post: 6678163, member: 63746"] As seen IC, I think I'll be taking over Vindar for now, if that's alright? Haven't decided on a class yet (can't quite cut the paladin's requirements, unfortunetly) so I'm leaning towards either Fighter or Cleric (since he's been continually bathed in healing spells since his capture)... Is Thurm Thermax an option? I'm thinking his main motivation might eventually be to ascend, like Thurm, and "do it right", this time. :) What about you, Leif? Any of the presented options tickle your fancy? [url=http://roll.coyotecode.net/lookup.php?rollid=95302]Stats: 3D6 = [4, 6, 4] = 14 3D6 = [2, 5, 2] = 9 3D6 = [3, 1, 4] = 8 3D6 = [4, 6, 6] = 16 3D6 = [3, 1, 6] = 10 3D6 = [5, 6, 3] = 14 [/url] It's up to Gargrim now, but that ship has sailed as far as I'm concerned. [sblock=Opinions and such]In general, I think we understand what 'negotiating/bargaining' entails differently, I think. To me it means: high demand, followed by low counter offer (AKA opening positions); then bargain hard until you meet somewhere in the middle. These two statements seem contradictory: setting 3 dwarfs free is no big deal to his defenses, but setting 1 dwarf free is potential disaster? If giving over 12 axes over was really going to so completely convince them of the group's good faith, then asking for some sort of advance-in-kind/security for the first dwarf seems like a natural counter to me (Midgrim had already offered his own axe for him, after all). Breaking off negotiations while singing a chorus of "I am evil" and torturing people right in front of the party, joking about eating his prisoners alive.... Maybe not so much of a smart move if he knew anytghing about dwarven tempers? If you straight-agree to anything, they'll think they low-balled it and come back with demands for more. <shrug> Plus, Midgrim was a dwarf. ;) The fact that Midgrim [I]did[/I] negotiate that first one down should have been a strong indication to Sigur that he was going to try to do the same against his much higher demands, I would have thought... That's sort of the whole point of doing it in the first place. Insulted I can certainly understand (although Sigur's extreme reaction to that (unintended) insult sort of makes me doubt his own commitment to making a deal). The second bit doesn't quite click though. When you negotiate in bad faith, you can simply agree to whatever price the other wants, since you have no intention of paying anyway. You only negotiate hard when you *do* intend to pay. If Sigur suspected foul play, he should have been, on the contrary, highly suspicious of any easy agreement to his demands (clearly, to his mind, designed to get him to release that one dwarf and his dangerous inside information (whatever that was)). [Snip the rest] In general, I'd say that it might be entirely justifiable and possible for Sigur to decide to throw the whole negotiations down the toilet on an imagined insult (You did get that Midgrim did not intend it to be an insult at all, right? That was his opening gambit in what he expected to be protracted, hardball negotiations). Same thing for that firebomb glyph to exist. The thing is, you control the world, so you can use the same logic to justify just about anything: dragons on the 1st level, suddenly collapsing ceilings, it's ALL possible, probable and/or 'realistic'... But it's just as easy to justify Sigur shattering that flask on the ground behind him to cover his exit in a wall of flames (no glyphs needed), or going for a lesser show of temper when 'insulted', if he really did want/need this deal. Going for the worst case outcome should be a last recourse, IMHO : these things are hard enough as it is. Having Sigur cut-down Midgrim would have been entirely justifiable in my book (and actually expected/dreaded when he charged in). That would have been a good death, of his own choosing, battling senseless evil and defending his dwarven kin against the same. In comparison, planting a glyphed firebomb on an opponent that already outmatches the entire party, just so it can inevitably blow up in their faces in the unlikely event a 1st level party somehow DOES heroically defeat and/or rout/outmaneuver a 4th level boss... is a sad death, that cannot help but feel like an arbitrary punishment. I hope you can see the difference.[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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