E6 and dragons?

[der_kluge]

I'm currently running an E8 (E6 variant up to 8th level) and I'm curious how others who have ran E6 or E8 deal with dragons.

Do you change them at all?

My concern is that, left unchanged, a great wyrm dragon would be completely, and utterly unstoppable in the D&D world, when even the most powerful of heroes would be completely dead after the first breath weapon.

What are the options here?

 

[SpiderMonkey]

I think of what 4e mentions in regard to some of the more epic foes: make a plot device out of it. The PCs have to plumb ancient tombs and libraries to find the dragon's weakness, track it down, and fulfill the weird conditions necessary to implement the weakness. Then said dragon is reduced to a threat that is still significant, but not ridiculously out of the PCs league.

That'd be my take, anyway.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Don't have them get bigger than Huge.

They'll still be plenty tough, and some may require luck, powerful magic, and an army or two on top of that...

 

[Runestar]

They use shivering touch and pray that they don't encounter white dragons?

 

[mmadsen]

The dragon's 3E stat are intentionally...impressive. It's the canonical D&D monster, designed for a game that goes well beyond sixth or eighth level.

You have a few options. First, you can use Wyrmling stats, but call it an ancient red dragon. That would be in the spirit of E6. (You might want to bump up the size though.)

Or you can use dinosaur stats and add a breath weapon (and flight). The Megaraptor is a CR6 monster. The T. Rex is CR8.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

It's even mythologically appropriate: I think it's almost archetypal for a hero to find a "magic sword" or learn the "secret spell" to take out the really big opponents.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I think some combination would work best - e6 can handle CR10 dragons
so capping E8 dragons at adult ( cr10-15) should work. Just change the names of the catagories YA now adult, Adults are now called Wyrms.
Sorcerer levels will even stay under 7.

I made a lot of E6 NPCs but never tested the balance of lvl 8+extra feats, you may want to run a test battle with a dragon before settling on max size.

Besides remember Smaug - no sane mortal ever thought they could beat him,
some reconnaissance, a talking bird, a magic arrow, and a hail mary shot - it is thus that epic dragons are slain.

 

[S'mon]

You have a few options. First, you can use Wyrmling stats, but call it an ancient red dragon. That would be in the spirit of E6. (You might want to bump up the size though.)

This is roughly what I do - eg I'd use Wyrmling stats for Young Adult and make it Large. For an E6 game the largest ancient dragons should be around 12-14 hit dice, IMO. A good way to set Hit dice is compare to animals of similar size. I always hated tiny wyrmlings with 30+ hp, or medium young with 85+.

 

[der_kluge]

I can't help but think taking away some of their spellcaster progression would also make a lot more sense, and would go a long way towards toning them down. Maybe set the maximum dragon caster level to something like 2 higher than what mortals can achieve. It would still give dragons an edge, but wouldn't allow them to wish or even teleport all over the place.

Seems like I have some work to do in this area.

 

[frankthedm]

These are what dragonslaying in E6 looks like.



I too recommend increasing the listed size one step when using dragons in E6. You don't need to boost the stats, just use a larger mini.