E6 - how does it change the feel of the game

Asmo · Sep 15, 2012

My Google-Fu is weak: can someone please provide me with a link to the rules for E6 and if there is one, a Pathfinder E6?

Asmo

Yora · Sep 15, 2012

"D&D E6" didn't get you a result?

Though in fairness, the material only exist in a forum thread and does not have a website, that may be a bit confusing:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/206323-e6-game-inside-d-d.html

Gilladian · Sep 15, 2012

There's also: E6 / FrontPage

Gilladian · Sep 15, 2012

And this: http://www.enworld.org/forum/pathfinder-rpg-discussion/313026-p6-pathfinder-e6-rules-epic-feats.html

which links to this: Epic 6/Character Creation - Myth-Wiki (which I had never seen)

Man in the Funny Hat · Sep 15, 2012

Yora said:
When I work on my setting, I always try to remember "all those city guards and thugs are 1st level warriors, with gate guards at the castle and highwaymen maybe being 2nd level fighters". Everything else is based on how the new NPC I am working on would fare against such opponents.
If the character could not beat up a partrol of 10 regular guards without any real danger, then he's probably only 4th level or lower.

I personally believe that it is nearly irrelevant how NPC's compare to each other in power and levels. All that matters is how the NPC's compare to the PC's.

Asmo · Sep 15, 2012

Yora said:
"D&D E6" didn't get you a result?

Though in fairness, the material only exist in a forum thread and does not have a website, that may be a bit confusing:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/206323-e6-game-inside-d-d.html

I found the thread, but I was sure that there was a homepage or somesuch dedicated to E6. Thanks!

Asmo

Yora · Sep 15, 2012

Man in the Funny Hat said:
I personally believe that it is nearly irrelevant how NPC's compare to each other in power and levels. All that matters is how the NPC's compare to the PC's.

Yes, and from the relationships PC <> A and PC <> B, you also define the relationship A <> B.

My reasoning behind it is to judge how the mechanical stats of the PCs relates to their influence within the setting.

There is this really bad habit of making all kings and queens 18th level fighters and wizards. Something I find myself constantly slipping into.
But look at the political leaders of the world today. Their power is purely political and social and the reason you can't just walk up to the President of the United States and stab him dead is not his awesome kung-fu skills and his magic swords on his belt. It's because he's surrounded by a whole bunch of guys with awesome kung-fu skills, ballistic vests, handguns and all kinds of electronic surveilance equipment. Okay, Putin would still spank my ass in a one on one, even if I had a knife and he does not, but that's beside the point. ^^

So assumed the party of four 5th level PCs is lead to the lord of the local duchy and they encounter something like this:
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A cool boss fight for the party would be a 7th level NPC, but would that really be appropriate here? From the look of it, if she's alone on the street at night and two guys with knives attack her, she's probably very dead. Even if she does happen to have a black belt in Judo and catch them by suprise, she's still in very serious danger. So I would make her a 2nd or maybe 3rd level expert, not a 7th level rogue or sorcerer.
And that means if the PCs would want to kill her, and I want to make it a big fight, then the fight would be with her bodyguard, which may very well be four fighters of 3rd or 4th level, making a nice EL 7 fight.

On the other hand, assuming the PCs are 8th level and walk into the throne room with full armor and weapons, they practically have both the duchess plus her four bodyguards, and all the other 1st and 2nd level retainers as hostages, like the Joker on that fancy upper class party.
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AD&D seems to work on a similar logic, but 3rd Edition often makes uses of the entire level range, which makes the idea that the average city guardsmen is a 1st level warrior just rediculous. As 12th level characters, you can take the entire guard at once and only really have to worry about the captain. When the guards come to arrest you, they don't have any leverage to make you do anything they say.

S'mon · Sep 15, 2012

Yora said:
So assumed the party of four 5th level PCs is lead to the lord of the local duchy and they encounter something like this:
[sblock]

[/sblock]
A cool boss fight for the party would be a 7th level NPC, but would that really be appropriate here? From the look of it, if she's alone on the street at night and two guys with knives attack her, she's probably very dead. Even if she does happen to have a black belt in Judo and catch them by suprise, she's still in very serious danger. So I would make her a 2nd or maybe 3rd level expert, not a 7th level rogue or sorcerer.
And that means if the PCs would want to kill her, and I want to make it a big fight, then the fight would be with her bodyguard, which may very well be four fighters of 3rd or 4th level, making a nice EL 7 fight.

On the other hand, assuming the PCs are 8th level and walk into the throne room with full armor and weapons, they practically have both the duchess plus her four bodyguards, and all the other 1st and 2nd level retainers as hostages, like the Joker on that fancy upper class party.

A Duke or Duchess is pretty important; there are a lot of variables but in a typical E10 game of mine I'd typically be statting the Duchess somewhere between 3rd and 5th level, depending on setting demographics - lower in my Willow Vale game where 5th level PCs were legendary heroes, higher in my Yggsburgh games where 5th level is very much elite, but not legendary.

Castle Kallent in my Yggsburgh campaign is the ruling seat of a powerful independent (Palatine) realm. There is a standing garrison of 50 men-at-arms (36 Fighter 1, 8 Corporal Fighter 2, 4 Serjeant Fighter 3, 1 Master Serjeant Fighter 4, 1 Captain Fighter 5), a dozen or so knights and other warriors of ca 2nd-5th level (Sir Ulrich Hawkes, if present, is Fighter 6th), and a 5th level Cleric, the castle chaplain Father Thadeus; usually no Magic-Users. I don't think a typical 5th level PC group would have much chance in the throneroom. An 8th level PC group would be the most powerful band of heroes in generations, and could probably take out the castle, but I'd expect they'd find it challenging.
I haven't actually statted out the new Earl, George, but Fighter-5 looks about right; he's a tough warrior who in his youth crusaded against the Paynims in the Holy Land.

Gilladian · Sep 15, 2012

In my current campaign, the PCs are headquartered in a small town (2,000 pop, roughly) located near a large dungeon that has drawn adventurers for several generations. The town is located on the edge of a region that is JUST being recivilized after a collapse several hundred years ago. There was an attempt fifty or so back to settle the area, but it failed. The current attempt, begun about 30 years ago, has been going well.

So there's an edge of the wild kind of feel to the area, but it isn't absolute. The town's sheriff is 6th level +8 feats (or 6L+8 in my notation). He's about the equivalent of a 10th level character in most games. He's a human fighter, with a lot of archery feats. He's the toughest dude in town. He has a couple of L1-2 assistants. Other important townsfolk are the two clerics of the big temples (L6 and L5), the mayor (L4 expert), some rangers and druids from nearby groves (L3-5, about 6 of them altogether), and the town's weaponsmith, who is a retired adventurer (L6+3 fighter). Oh, and there is an elf sage (wizard), L5, and a hobbyt sorcerer (L6+3).

Nobody else in town is a PC class, and nobody else in town is over L3.

If this town, of the same size, were located in a "civilized" area (such as the realm of Greenvale) instead of in wild country, the sheriff would be L4 or 5, the smith would be L3, and the clerics would be L 3-4. There would probably be ONE wizard or sorcerer of 2-3rd level.