E6: The Game Inside D&D (with PDFs!)

[White Whale]

I've been thinking about wealth following PC CR. So when they are 6+5, they have 7th level wealth, 6+10 they have 8th lvl wealth and so on.

Of course, your idea is valid too (and might even be better).

I think maybe the Wealth Feats from Mastering Iron Heroes could be useful in E6? That way, the players can keep finding treasure (non magic) and still get benefits from it, and at the same time stay at wealth level 6.

What kind of magic items do you suggest to allow? Everything from the books with a caster level of 6 and lower? If so, aren't they relatively few and un-powerful for 6th+ level characters?

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Guess so, but one of the things I perceive as a problem with high level play is the abundance of powerful magic items and the PCs' dependence on them, so for me I don't think there's a problem .

Be interesting to hear others' opinion?

 

[Ry]

I would limit market-purchaseable items to level 6, but only if I was looking for an Eberron-like game where there was a market for magic and 6th level characters were likely to have mercantile / craftsman leanings.

 

[Ry]

A whole box of cookies for rycanada.

Currently (details to be worked out with the players) I am planning on running either E6(lean upward) or E8 game with Gestalt characters. Any particular concerns/thoughts about adding Gestalt.

Details: I have 4 players, but most of the time only 3 at any 1 time (thanks to the Schedule Conflict Ogre). If I do E8 I will limit magic to 3rd level spells, with 4th level slots available for metamagic spells.

A whole box of cookies? Sweet!

If you go Gestalt E6 you might find there's more resources because a few other folks on the boards are doing the same thing. The 6th-level characters in your campaign will be quite mighty - especially if you let lots of real, honest-to-goodness talking or fighting NPCs be 1st-level characters. The ratio of PC awesome : DM prep time would be quite excellent.

 

[Ry]

Has anyone examined the impact of including non-standard classes (i.e., duskblade, swordsage, psion, etc.) under the E6 variant? Are they still balanced against the standard classes or against each other? Or do they lose their uniqueness?

Here's my POV for variant classes (and this goes for E6 and D&D as well).

The best way to use variants is to build them into the campaign world. That amplifies their mechanical coolness with something the player (i.e. human being at the table) can really jam to. That's what really lets those variants shine. So I think a great approach to designing a campaign would be picking say, six really distinctive classes, three distinctive races, and building the situation around that. My PTRR / amusement park method would really shine under that kind of tight design constraint.

[sblock=Example of using variants to define a setting]Imagine an intrigue-filled endless "wild west" set a thousand years after the collapse of a victorian steampunk era (not severe magic chaos like eberron's last war, just a general decline in central political authorities and technological craftsmanship).

Gunslinger
(Ranger, no animal companions, must go ranged combat). Part of a brotherhood that has tremendous respect but very little political power. Code binds the gunslingers (i.e., must accept duels) but it's not alignment-based, so gunslingers can be on opposing sides of all sorts of conflicts. Code includes being impartial and sticking to the terms of a bargain. Non-gunslingers with guns are hunted down by the gunslingers, as are major violators of the code. Gunslingers must aid each other when someone breaks the terms of a gunslinger's contract. No weapons may be drawn in the presence of a gunsmith (gunsmiths are the non-combatant judges / craftsmen / trainers of the order).

Shaman
Setting's spirits are all incorporeal and unseen, but run the gamut from fickle tricksters to ancestor ghosts to nature spirits. There are also demons in the world, but they're your enemies.

Advocate
(Ninja-like abilities, esp. momentary invisibility and lethal strikes) Played as trained members of Houses, which are like crime families in a world with no police to get in the way. Imagine if rather than the Cavalry showing up, all you could hope for in the wild west was the arrival of the currently dominant local crime family. They are the political powers of the setting. These Houses span the setting - so if you make enemies of a House in one place, you've got enemies in lots of places. Houses know better than to try to acquire firearms, and they know well enough to hire Gunslingers when necessary. Advocates' secret fighitng style, including their ability to move undetected and make deadly strikes is passed from one generation to the next in a kind of assassin's apprenticeship. Advocates reach the highest levels of power within their Houses, although Advocates don't reveal that they are anything more than other gentlemen belonging to their Houses unless they have to.

Warlock
(Somewhere between the concepts of warlock and binder in D&D) You made the deal, maybe under duress, or maybe for good reasons. Now you get the benefits. There are many demons in the world, and they can be used... but they can use you too. What's important, though, is that you stay alive, because you're not looking forward to what's waiting for you on the other side.

Tetsujin (metal men)
Paladin Warforged. Played largely as-is (using stats for Warforged Paladins or whatever). They are found in some ancient ruins, and about a hundred years ago someone figured out how to wake them up. They don't know who they are, they don't know how they were made. Often this means they can be used by others, and they're sought after by the Houses.

Artificer
Primarily elans who are trying to revive the old arts, massively interested in the Tetsujin, highly uninterested in human politics and sometimes victimized by that disinterest.[/sblock]

 

[Ry]

I've been thinking about wealth following PC CR. So when they are 6+5, they have 7th level wealth, 6+10 they have 8th lvl wealth and so on.

I like this approach as a rule of thumb for NPCs. You may find in play that since players are spending more time going from 6+5 to 6+10 than they would from 7 to 8 that they actually have more money. I do think it's a good idea in any game (but especially E6) to design ways that PCs can use their money on things that aren't gear.

 

[Ry]

I signed up just to post in this thread (thank Google...

E6 is an amazing rule variant. I've decided to use it for an upcoming campaign lacking magic of any sort, but with psionics. The feel of E6 really fits the concept I have for my campaign, and I'm really glad I stumbled onto this thread. Once I get the campaign background fleshed out and get ready to start the campaign, I'll be hosting the game over at rpol.net.

Post a link over here when you're ready! I think E6 + psionics would be a fantastic campaign. I'd love to play in that game.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I would limit market-purchaseable items to level 6, but only if I was looking for an Eberron-like game where there was a market for magic and 6th level characters were likely to have mercantile / craftsman leanings.

Meaning that if it's not an Eberron-like world you would do what?

 

[Ry]

I'd need more detail. If you have a world like Middle Earth or various other fantasy novels where magic was not a commodity, I would say that magic items aren't bought and sold - they're considered too precious for that. That means they're kept, used, or given as gifts. In such a campaign I wouldn't have PCs be able to spend their cash on magic items except in situations justified by the game as played.

What I'm trying to say is that the best market-purchasable magic I'd allow in an E6 game is the ones that humans can create, which means CL 6 or CL 8 with an artificer. The minimum is "no magic market whatsoever." But the ideal requires a description of what else you're aiming for with your game.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I like this approach as a rule of thumb for NPCs. You may find in play that since players are spending more time going from 6+5 to 6+10 than they would from 7 to 8 that they actually have more money. I do think it's a good idea in any game (but especially E6) to design ways that PCs can use their money on things that aren't gear.

Thus my idea to use the Wealth feats from Iron Heroes. (Basically, the value of treasure you don't spend on equipment is considered spent on drink, food and wenching, allowing you to pick 'free' feats that increases your reputation and such stuff. I like it.
I will have to check, but seem to recall that OGL Conan has similar feats.