Ebberon - If not guns, then what?

Kurotowa said:
When they needed a siege weapon to break fortifications, instead of inventing cannons they invented warforged titans and magical ballistas. Instead of creating units of elite riflemen, they have units of elite Magewrights with Eternal Wands of Magic Missile. (I do note everyone is leaving Eternal Wands off their calculations.) All the same tactical needs can be filled with existing magical technology.

An eternal wand only fires twice per day. In order to be effective, a magewright would need several such wands, which would get prohibitively expensive. True wizards might be rare, but what about adepts? It'd be far cheaper to field an adept with one normal (50-charge) wand than a magewright with several eternal wands.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

WayneLigon said:
Back on topic

Now, one thing I seem to remember - and this is from a long time ago so I might be getting the facts wrong - is that the gun really only started to take off as a really useful weapon of war once we invented the concept of interchangeable parts. It was a huge advantage to take my Boston-made gun into a gunsmith in Charleston and be able to buy a new trigger off the shelf so to speak.

Hrm. I don't think that's quite the case, as firearms were the primary armament for most infantry at least by the early 1700s. I don't think interchangeable parts came around until the 1800s. But I don't have anything off the top of my head that I can point to to make sure.

What I do think I remember reading in Keegan's History of Warfare is that the mixed units of guns and pikes started becoming all-gun almost immediately after the socket bayonet was invented. That meant that the gunners could act as their own pikemen for fending off cavalry charges and whatnot.

Brad
 

zen_hydra said:
This still doesn't make eternal wands comparable to firearms. You can teach a conscripted peasent to fire a gun. You need a highly educated specialist (magewright) to use an eternal wand.

Magewright is an NPC class, QED it isn't a highly educated specialist. A Wizard or other PC class is a highly educated specialist. You're right that they don't replace firearms. They aren't meant to. Archers are still the light ranged weapon of choice in Eberron, a unit of wands is meant for formation breaking and titan slaying and other high impact jobs.

There isn't a direct 1:1 relationship between Eberron military tech. There isn't supposed to be. When a setting tries that it usually comes off as contrived and lame. What Eberron has is military tech that makes sense given the magical ground rules of D&D and the need to preserve the core of the game style. Why ask for more?
 

If you want some inspiriational material for a 'magic-firearm' type army I suggest reading Harry Turtledove's Darkness series. I think the first one is "Into the Darkness".

You get infantry with rifles that shoot magic-fueled energy and dragons dropping magic-fueled bombs.
 

Magewright is an NPC class, QED it isn't a highly educated specialist.
No, that doesn't hold up. Expert can also represent a highly educated specialist. Aristocrat too. PC classes don't correlate to education or specialization, just "specialness," handiness in a fight, really.
 

Magewights are actually not that rare. If you looked hard enough, you could probably find a few, and the minimum to make use of of a single level is simply an intelligence of 12, which is easily achievable with a non-elite array. Magewights are 1% of the population, and they're much less likely to die because they're valued for their skills outside of combat, not just using wands in it. Wizards and Sorcerors, now those are rare, the equivilant of our professional engineers, doctors, and bigwig scientists.

And Magic Missile is the least practical spell ever to stick into an Eternal Wand. If you want to consider 1'st level spells, things like Obscuring Mist, Mount, Silent Image, and Enlarge Person are all far superior in terms of bringing useful magic to the battlefield at 1'st caster level.

At second level, things get much more interesting. Area of effect crowd control becomes available, such as Glitterdust, Web, Summon Swarm, and Hypnotic Pattern. Actual battle magic is passable with things like the infamous Scorching Ray shotgun, Blindness/Deafness, Acid Arrow, and Flaming Sphere. The infamous utility of Invisibility and Rope Trick. Highly practical spells like Whispering Wind, Darkness, Darkvision, Pyrotechnics, and Protection from Arrows.

And, of course, rocket-launcher good at level 3 spells. The ever popular Eternal Wand of Fireball, which lets to roast most ordinary mortals at 600 feet, or dent more seasoned troops, twice a day, refills once every day, without fail. Haste, which shows that superspeed is indeed good on a battlefield. Wind Wall, shielding your siege engines from Alchemist's Fire and Flaming Arrows in a tight corner, reliably in nearly all situations. Stinking Cloud, making those opposing mages throw up and regret eating breakfast that morning. Clairaudience, giving people satalite imaging before satalites were imagined. And so on and so forth.

Really, there are a ton of reasons why they invented the Eternal Wand instead of guns. Maybe it's the endless versatility of magic that can be imprinted on a single blueprint item, rather than highly inaccurate bits of lead that need to be fired in huge volleys to be any good, and have a good chance of blowing up in your face? It took decades of experimentation, refinement, and face-slapping to get anywhere near the guns we know and love oh-so-dearly. Why build suicide machines tomorrow, when you can build rocket launchers that recharge infinitely, now? Not to mention that you can use the same blueprint for a rocket launcher, make a few changes, and have long-range scouting capacities.
 

zen_hydra said:
Careful now! You are now treading the slippery slope of adding logic and tactics to a D&D world. Continuing down this path will lead to nothing but grief as all of your campaigns castled are undermined by earth elemental sappers. ;)

Which is precisely what would happen in an Eberron game. Will happen in the Eberron game I'm running, when they get to a certain point. But it will still be a rare occurance; elementals of that size can only be summoned by people of a certain level and those people are rare on Eberron, much rarer than in most standard D&D settings.

Even in a more standard D&D setting, though, elemental sappers would still be rare.
 

zen_hydra said:
Kurotowa, Eternal Wands require a UMD trained user, and even then they are prohibitively expensive.

Well, 820 GP. Figure the government is going to get that at cost or below, so figure 400 GP. 400 GP sounds like a lot to some pissant second level adventurer but it's chump change to a government that not only controls the source of production but they produce the money as well. That's cheaper than fielding a 1st level warrior in a suit of half-plate (assuming they also pay half or less than what everyone else pays); halfplate armor, large steel shield, and a couple of weapons plus gear. Plus the cost of feeding and housing him.

The real limiter to their production is the XP cost.
 

WayneLigon said:
That's cheaper than fielding a 1st level warrior in a suit of half-plate (assuming they also pay half or less than what everyone else pays); halfplate armor, large steel shield, and a couple of weapons plus gear. Plus the cost of feeding and housing him.

That's true, but irrelevant. Who sends out the first level warriors in suits of half-plate? The nations would be broke after the first year. It's like a pizza place buying all of its delivery people Ford Mustangs.

The first level warriors are the guys going out in padded armor and maybe, if they are lucky, leather. Swords? Probably spears.
 

Glyfair said:
The first level warriors are the guys going out in padded armor and maybe, if they are lucky, leather. Swords? Probably spears.
No, no, this is Eberron, everyone skews low-level, it's not one of those settings where NPCs get to third level or so as a matter of course, so you can't assume first-level warriors are raw levies. Nope. You most likely do have contingents of well-equipped first-level warriors.
 

Remove ads

Top