Ebberon - If not guns, then what?

[Glyfair]

No, no, this is Eberron, everyone skews low-level, it's not one of those settings where NPCs get to third level or so as a matter of course, so you can't assume first-level warriors are raw levies. Nope. You most likely do have contingents of well-equipped first-level warriors.

Skews low level and NPC classes. NPC classes are much closer to D&D standard distribution of levels. There are 20th level characters with NPC classes floating around, but no 20th level PC classes.

I still think 1st level warriors are raw levies. Your more experienced troops are probably 3rd level warriors and the occasional 1st level fighter.

 

[Hamburger Mary]

NPC classes are much closer to D&D standard distribution of levels.

This is true - but remember that the "D&D standard distribution of levels" results in over 90% of the world being 1st level NPC classes. There are 20th level NPC class characters out there, but they are hardly commonplace. Maza Thadian, the 18th-level commoner, is renowned across the Five Nations for her skill as a master chef.

Setting aside the fact that Forge of War sets the common soldier at 1st level, if you look at Sharn, an "elite" soldier of the *royal guard* (not just the Sharn Watch) is a 2nd-level warrior.

So I think the 1st level warrior is the COMMON soldier, but that doesn't make him "raw and untrained" - raw and untrained is a commoner, and according to Forge of War, you found them in the army too.

So I'd go with:

• 1st-level Commoner. True peasant levy. Give them a spear and let 'em go.
• 1st-level Warrior. Basic, trained soldier. Not exceptional, but beats the commoner. The bulk of the armies. Not likely to get great equipment, because they are the bulk troopers - they're the leather or studded leather troops. I think many soldiers remain at this level even with some combat experience; a) that's what basic demographics suggest, and b) I assume that many of the 1st-level warriors in Sharn listed in Sharn has seen SOME action.
• 2nd-level Warrior. Veteran soldier. Experienced and hardened. Often considered "elite", though not on the Redcloak level (Sharn refers to 2nd-level warriors as "elite" both in the Royal Guard and the Sharn Watch).
• 3-4th level Warrior. Exceptional soldier. Likely to be pulled to a special elite unit, or to command other soldiers.
• 5th level+ Warrior.Truly remarkable skill. Will end up in one of the top units of the nation, like the Redcloaks.

In my eyes, the big thing is that Eberron takes the stigma out of being first level. In Eberron - and D&D - most of the population of the world is first level. That doesn't mean you have no talent or no skill; it means you're average, and the whole point OF "average" is that it represents the majority. Maza Thadian is an AMAZING cook, who brings in clients from across the continent; but the 1st-level commoner is a perfectly acceptable cook. The AVERAGE tavern cook is first level, not third. We may look at a first level warrior and say "That guy sucks!" but when you put him next to a first level commoner or expert, he's got more hit points, a better BAB, and weapon proficiencies; he IS a better soldier.

And once you accept that a first level warrior is an acceptable, trained soldier, it's easy to see how a 2nd-level warrior can be called "elite". Better BAB, potentially twice as many hit points, even better skills. He's dramatically better. A 6th-level warrior is astonishing compared to the first or second levels, and Eberron follows through with that; there are songs and stories about the Redcloaks.

There are higher-level characters in the armies. The Sharn Watch, the Royal Guard, and the armies listed in FoW have higher level characters. But they are either elites, officers, or members of legendary units. The 1st level warriors are the solid foundation. The second levels are the elite veterans. And anyone above this is a remarkable soldier who's likely to rise to a decent position.

I do agree with you: the armies probably didn't equip first level soldiers with full plate. You'd save that for your veterans and elite forces, who you hope will survive more than one blow. But I still think the first level forces were the bulk of the army - not just the latest, completely inexperienced recruits. And following the example of S:CoT and FoW, I'd see 2nd-level troops as the veterans - and 3rd-level as a relatively rare step above that.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Instead of creating units of elite riflemen, they have units of elite Magewrights with Eternal Wands of Magic Missile. (I do note everyone is leaving Eternal Wands off their calculations.)

That's because comparing pretty much anything to an eternal wand is ridiculous. They can only be used twice per day - that's not a weapon, it's a party trick.

Even in the case of a wand of fireball, I would argue that the flexibility represented by being able to use it whenever necessary more than justifies the eventual replacement cost. You don't want to be in a situation where you really need a third lightning bolt or you'll be overrun, after all.

 

[LoneWolf23]

Having done so, however, I must ask - what would the soldiers in the Last War be using to kill each other with? After 100+ years of a magical arms proliferation, including living constructs, animated siege engines, and airships, I find it very hard to believe that no one ever came up with a deadlier weapon for the common soldier to use than a pointy bit of metal.

I have issues with this statement. It ignores the simple fact that through thousands of years of human history, gunpowder weapons are a relatively recent invention. The chinese had gunpowder for centuries, but still fought their wars using crossbows, not guns.

 

[zen_hydra]

For a good gun/magic compromise there are the magical firearms and munitions found in the book Arsenal by Perpetrated Press. That book has an implied setting that involves magical industrialization that is beyond anything that Eberron has, but there is no reason that the weapons in the book could not be hand crafted by an enclave of artificers/wizards.

Another good place to look (IMO) is the book DragonMech by Goodman Games. DragonMech has elementally-fueled, steam powered weapons. I can easily see these steam cannons harnessing dragonshards.

The weapons from both/either of these books could be easily added to the setting without all of the technological stigma that gunpowder weapons seem to carry, and you still get to have the satisfaction of artillery hammering fortress walls. Anything is better with explosions.

 

[painandgreed]

Having done so, however, I must ask - what would the soldiers in the Last War be using to kill each other with? After 100+ years of a magical arms proliferation, including living constructs, animated siege engines, and airships, I find it very hard to believe that no one ever came up with a deadlier weapon for the common soldier to use than a pointy bit of metal.

As others have pointed out, it's not a matter of the deadlier weapon, its the cheaper weapon. Guns came into being because they were easier to train and less expensive than bows or crossbows. For a magic equivilent to show up to fulfill the place of firearms, it would need to be a magic simple weapon that was cheaper to make than a bow or crossbow while still being near as effective. It would be even better if it was a ranged or melee weapon such as a rifle with bayonet. That is not a wand unless you want to come out with a 5gp wand that does 1d6 in melee combat or ranged, much like the warlock's special ability (arcane bolt?). Somehow I think that would do something to balance.*

Given realistic combat (which is not really D&D), the best thing you can do is create an item for morale and command. A banner that not only provides a morale bonus for troops fighting under it but also allows the commander to hear the commands of somebody near a superior banner. Then if the person holoding it dies, somebody else picks it up and all is good. RL combats were won often not by killing the other troops but making them route.

Since this is D&D, the most likely replacement for lots of troops with new weapons would be the more experienced troops with better weapons. Ideally, elite units with the best weapons, which would mean PC types and parties supplied with the magic equipment to go in and combat the other sides elite troops or devistate their weaker troops. A sound military theory is to hit their best troops with your best troops. Whoever wins that minor battle generally wins the war as the other sides morale will fail while the surviving elite troops mop up the rest of the lines.

Editted to add:
* Which is why a new technology takes over, because it upsets the balance. Once somebody figures out something good, they use it and win, and pretty quick everybody adopts it. You could replace crossbows with cheap wands, and even then include them with higher level versions. At that point, you have changed the scope of the game.