Eberron Conversion Questions
- Thread starter Qualidar
- Start date
Remathilis
Legend
Meh, I didn't like it. Their artificer is more technological/tinker than Eberron's (who is solidly magic-as-tech, not tech-as-magic). There are some odd design choices (full bab, d6 HD. Wha?) and weird science is much more confusing and potentially broken than infusions. Not my cup of tea.
Last edited:
Qualidar
First Post
OK, I was chewing this over at lunch (Mmmm: pepperoni Artificer! 
).
The Artificer is pretty much 3 things:
1) A spellcaster,
2) A magic item crafter, and
3) A guy who gets "other stuff"
1) The Artificer as Spellcaster
At heart the Artificer is a wizard with the advantage of casting any spell he knows without memorization, while wearing armor, with a more robust hit-die and superior attack progression than the base wizard. This is balanced out by the fact that his list of spells is restricted, his casting times are prohibitive, and he has fewer available spells per day compared to normal spellcasters.
I would say that portion of the Artificer is fairly self balancing. Although lessening some of those restrictions might help boost the character up to "Pathfinder Class" shape later on, let's put that aside for now.
2) The Artificer as Craftsman
As Remathilis points out, this is the part that gets gimped by the changes in the PRPG. If the Artificer's going to keep this as part of his schtick, we need to address these issues, and add to his capabilities to give him an edge over other crafters.
Spellcraft is the universal skill that is used to make magic items. The DC is 5+ caster level. The artificer used use magic device at DC 20 + caster level to accomplish the same trick.
Here we can just have them default to the standard crafting rules. In order to help them maintain their edge, perhaps grant a +1/2 Artificer level bonus to Spellcraft when crafting items.
Artificers can emulate pre-reqs (except item creation feats) they don't normally meet with a use magic device check (DC 20+CL) per missed pre-req. So can anyone else by adding +5 per missed pre-req to the spellcraft DC.
Once again use the standard rules, and again give a +1/2 Artificer level bonus to UMD checks when crafting items.
Pathfinder artisans can make items while adventuring (only netting 1/2 the benefit of time) thus eliminating the artificer advantage on time.
To maintain the Artificer edge, we need to give them an ability that decreases their required crafting time. I think this plays nicely with the next point, so see below.
Artificers gained a craft-reserve of "XP" to spend on items. No longer needed.
The point of the craft reserve is to decrease costs, and we can carry that over to a savings on the gp costs. I think the solution here is to provide incremental reductions in both time and cost, spread out over the Artificer's level progression. The question is: What should the savings be? At the moment I'm leading to 25% off gp costs at 5th level, 50% off costs at 10th level, and 75% off as the capstone 20th level ability. Not sure on what to do for the time reduction, but perhaps scaling up 20% every three levels? Need to see where the holes in the ability progression fall.
5th level artificers gained retain essence, which let you recycle XP from items. No longer needed.
This can also be converted to a gp-based ability. I suggest a 20% recovery of "essence" that can only be used to create items or pay for spell-related xp costs.
Artificers get "Artificer knowledge" which let them identify magic items with an special level+int check and one minute. Spellcasters can cast detect magic at-will and identify items with a spellcraft check.
Artificers should now, at will, be able to make spellcraft rolls to identify magic items as if they had cast the Detect Magic spell.
Don't want to be spellcaster but still want to make items? Try Master Craftsman
While I don't think this has any impact on the Artificer, I wanted to point out that this is a cool way to make a Magewright as an expert, as opposed to his own NPC class.
3) The Artificer as a guy who gets "other stuff"
So the Artificer also gets: Trapfinding, free-item creation feats, meta-magic item use, a slightly higher (level+2) caster level to make magic items, and a hommoculus. I think all of that can pretty much stay.
So the next question is, how will this class stand up to the Pathfinder core? I think I'll leave that for a later post. Phew, all this class creation is a lot of hard work!
).The Artificer is pretty much 3 things:
1) A spellcaster,
2) A magic item crafter, and
3) A guy who gets "other stuff"
1) The Artificer as Spellcaster
At heart the Artificer is a wizard with the advantage of casting any spell he knows without memorization, while wearing armor, with a more robust hit-die and superior attack progression than the base wizard. This is balanced out by the fact that his list of spells is restricted, his casting times are prohibitive, and he has fewer available spells per day compared to normal spellcasters.
I would say that portion of the Artificer is fairly self balancing. Although lessening some of those restrictions might help boost the character up to "Pathfinder Class" shape later on, let's put that aside for now.
2) The Artificer as Craftsman
As Remathilis points out, this is the part that gets gimped by the changes in the PRPG. If the Artificer's going to keep this as part of his schtick, we need to address these issues, and add to his capabilities to give him an edge over other crafters.
Spellcraft is the universal skill that is used to make magic items. The DC is 5+ caster level. The artificer used use magic device at DC 20 + caster level to accomplish the same trick.
Here we can just have them default to the standard crafting rules. In order to help them maintain their edge, perhaps grant a +1/2 Artificer level bonus to Spellcraft when crafting items.
Artificers can emulate pre-reqs (except item creation feats) they don't normally meet with a use magic device check (DC 20+CL) per missed pre-req. So can anyone else by adding +5 per missed pre-req to the spellcraft DC.
Once again use the standard rules, and again give a +1/2 Artificer level bonus to UMD checks when crafting items.
Pathfinder artisans can make items while adventuring (only netting 1/2 the benefit of time) thus eliminating the artificer advantage on time.
To maintain the Artificer edge, we need to give them an ability that decreases their required crafting time. I think this plays nicely with the next point, so see below.
Artificers gained a craft-reserve of "XP" to spend on items. No longer needed.
The point of the craft reserve is to decrease costs, and we can carry that over to a savings on the gp costs. I think the solution here is to provide incremental reductions in both time and cost, spread out over the Artificer's level progression. The question is: What should the savings be? At the moment I'm leading to 25% off gp costs at 5th level, 50% off costs at 10th level, and 75% off as the capstone 20th level ability. Not sure on what to do for the time reduction, but perhaps scaling up 20% every three levels? Need to see where the holes in the ability progression fall.
5th level artificers gained retain essence, which let you recycle XP from items. No longer needed.
This can also be converted to a gp-based ability. I suggest a 20% recovery of "essence" that can only be used to create items or pay for spell-related xp costs.
Artificers get "Artificer knowledge" which let them identify magic items with an special level+int check and one minute. Spellcasters can cast detect magic at-will and identify items with a spellcraft check.
Artificers should now, at will, be able to make spellcraft rolls to identify magic items as if they had cast the Detect Magic spell.
Don't want to be spellcaster but still want to make items? Try Master Craftsman
While I don't think this has any impact on the Artificer, I wanted to point out that this is a cool way to make a Magewright as an expert, as opposed to his own NPC class.
3) The Artificer as a guy who gets "other stuff"
So the Artificer also gets: Trapfinding, free-item creation feats, meta-magic item use, a slightly higher (level+2) caster level to make magic items, and a hommoculus. I think all of that can pretty much stay.
So the next question is, how will this class stand up to the Pathfinder core? I think I'll leave that for a later post. Phew, all this class creation is a lot of hard work!
My WF conversion
I give the WF +2 any stat like a human. and -2 CHA (so they could put the +2 in CHA to a net 0 CHA modifier)
This is because House Cannith would create the the schema to create the best WF for that role.
I also allow my WF to select what plating they start with. Nothing like being pigeon holed into spending you only feat on your armor, when everyone else can buy armor at first level.
I give the WF +2 any stat like a human. and -2 CHA (so they could put the +2 in CHA to a net 0 CHA modifier)
This is because House Cannith would create the the schema to create the best WF for that role.
I also allow my WF to select what plating they start with. Nothing like being pigeon holed into spending you only feat on your armor, when everyone else can buy armor at first level.
pawsplay
Hero
re: Artificers
It would probably be better to turn the xp reserve for items into a gp reserve
for items. My thoughts are basically:
d8 hit dice, average BAB: this is a sturdy character, but definitely a skirmisher
Infusions: translate as directly as you dare, pathfindering effects as necessary
craft magic item feats: acquired as level requirements are met automatically
trapfinding: as rogue
identify: Exceptional or spell-like ability, as spell, 3 + Int bonus times per day
humonculous becomes a "classed" NPC as per Druid animal companion
reserve: reserve becomes GP reserve for item creation
efficiency: high level ability, reduces creation time by 25%, then by 50% at 20th level
item mastery: add 1/2 level (minimum 1) to all UMD checks and all Spellcraft checks to identify or create items
20th level: master artificer, can use spell-triggers with attack rolls as iterative attacks, re-roll spell penetration checks with items, apply metamagic feats to magic item spell effects 3 + Int bonus times a day.
Alternatively: This might be somewhat heretical, but you could divide up the archetype among the Magic Item Domain and Artificer bloodline, with a new PrC that advances casting and provides the crafting reserve, bonuses to magic iem creation checks and identification, and humonculous.
It would probably be better to turn the xp reserve for items into a gp reserve
for items. My thoughts are basically:
d8 hit dice, average BAB: this is a sturdy character, but definitely a skirmisher
Infusions: translate as directly as you dare, pathfindering effects as necessary
craft magic item feats: acquired as level requirements are met automatically
trapfinding: as rogue
identify: Exceptional or spell-like ability, as spell, 3 + Int bonus times per day
humonculous becomes a "classed" NPC as per Druid animal companion
reserve: reserve becomes GP reserve for item creation
efficiency: high level ability, reduces creation time by 25%, then by 50% at 20th level
item mastery: add 1/2 level (minimum 1) to all UMD checks and all Spellcraft checks to identify or create items
20th level: master artificer, can use spell-triggers with attack rolls as iterative attacks, re-roll spell penetration checks with items, apply metamagic feats to magic item spell effects 3 + Int bonus times a day.
Alternatively: This might be somewhat heretical, but you could divide up the archetype among the Magic Item Domain and Artificer bloodline, with a new PrC that advances casting and provides the crafting reserve, bonuses to magic iem creation checks and identification, and humonculous.
The way I see it, artificers should not be able to manufacture typical magic items in larger quantities, cheaper or at lower levels than standard PCs.
On the other, there are a lot of non-adventuring items where their expertise could become a real non-gamebreaking asset:
- manufacturing of constructs
- manufacturing of magitech engines (as constructs, but on more industrial level)
- creation of rechargable daily items (street lanters, power cells) and recharging apparatus
- highlevel zone protections (think Forbiddance on grander scale at lower cost and at longer manufacture time)
- buildings - dungeons, cathedrals, bridges, pyramids, mines
- sieges
Regards,
Ruemere
On the other, there are a lot of non-adventuring items where their expertise could become a real non-gamebreaking asset:
- manufacturing of constructs
- manufacturing of magitech engines (as constructs, but on more industrial level)
- creation of rechargable daily items (street lanters, power cells) and recharging apparatus
- highlevel zone protections (think Forbiddance on grander scale at lower cost and at longer manufacture time)
- buildings - dungeons, cathedrals, bridges, pyramids, mines
- sieges
Regards,
Ruemere
Yes, constructs can be gamebreaking, however it's not that easy to gather funds for creation of a golem, and even less so to transport one.
It's also a matter of downtime needed - artificer needs time to do their job.
All is not lost, as there are quite a lot of pop-culture characters whose excel at creating weird items. They key to balance them would be to add limited resources (like power charges).
For example, Artificer could manufacture pocket iron golem grenade (i.e. poke-golem), however each use of such golem would require powering it with a few charges. Limiting these charges to certain amount per day and requiring some of them for maintaining of ongoing effects would probably solve this problem.
Savage Worlds introduce Mad Scientist type of character - the guy emulates magic effects with his devices, however he needs to spend them same amount of power points as wizard in order to use them. The drawback is that he needs time to manufacture them, the advantage is that he can store some charges and let others use them.
For example, Power Plate Armor which bestows enhanced strength as per Belt of Giant Strength. It requires one charge per day to function. For the convenience of d20 system, Artificer needs to spend an (pick appropriate level) slot per day to keep it functioning.
And so the Artificer would function like a Wizard, however, the more power he would invest into items, the fewer spells he would be able to cast.
Regards,
Ruemere
