Eberron: My players think they can rule the known world

[Klaus]

I agree that the PCs ARE special now. Just to remain in the pulp vein, in the first movie alone Indiana Jones was famous enough as an archaeologist and securer of lost antiquities that the US Government came to HIM to shine a light on a top secret piece of information during wartime.

So maybe the PCs won't be able to, by force of arms alone, rule a kingdom (unless they carve a kingdom out of the leaderless Shadow Marshes, Demon Wastes or Xen'drik). But now is the time when King Boranel approaches the PCs head into the Mournland and put an end to the Lord of Blades, or King Kaius III secretly sponsors the PCs as an elite force against the Blood of Vol (calling them the Order of the Red Fang?). By this level, kings will come to THEM for aid.

Over time, through heroic deeds on behalf of their country, marriage to the rescued princess or elected (Breland may become a democracy after Boranel croaks), they MIGHT become rulers.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

There is nothing wrong with a little power. My PCs, for example, are currently the rulers of a remote island with a small tribe of yuan-ti on it. Sure, none of the major nations of Khoirvaire recognize their claim, or even know that they are out there, but that is beside the point...

Oh, and they also found a prototype Creation Forge on the island, and are now trying to reactivate it. So there is a chance that they might become a regional power in their own right...

 

[Glyfair]

Eberron is a funny setting in my mind. It talks about being lower level in the npc factor; it stats that PC classes are rare and gifted. And then it talks about how special being a mid to high level pc is, and how you are someone to be taken seriously. But in my mind, that is not the case. This thread is an example of this. From what I've read so far, it feels to me that most people are more interested in squishing the PC's hopes instead of letting them play.

I think two factors you often see coming into play. First, there is a certain mindset from other campaign worlds that the PCs should have to be incredibly high level to be "movers and shakers" in the campaign. When those people look into Eberron, they don't feel the characters who are supposed to be the mover and shakers have "earned it." So, they try to emphasis that they aren't big things. I agree this goes against the flavor.

Secondly, I think you see a lot of the gamers who are stuck in a certain mindset. I think this is particularly prevalent in the groups that don't like playing heroes. When they get a certain amount of power, they feel the need to take over. This tends to go against the intended pulpish heroic flavor of Eberron, so those people see this (usually the DMs) and want to counter it with "you aren't the biggest fish in the sea."

Finally, I think some people are misinterpreting the "lower level setting" demographics. Part of the intent is that the heroes soon won't have people they can go crying to bail them out of a situation that they should be the ones to handle. They might go to the King of Breland to help them with a diplomatic situation. However, when they stumble on a plot that's way above their power level, they aren't tempted to "Tell Eliminster, he should be taking care of this" (and I'm not saying DMs would allow this in the Forgotten Realms, but the temptation is there for the players). In Eberron, the players are not only supposed to deal with the problems, they are supposed to feel they are the ones that have to deal with the problem.

 

[Staffan]

People forget that both Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms started much the same way but, over time, "power creep" became inevitable.

Don't know about Greyhawk, but FR had some heavy-hitters from the very beginning. The FR grey box had:
Azoun, 20th level cavalier
Dove Falconhand, 11th level ranger
Durkin, 14th level fighter
Elminster, 26th level magic-user
Eregul, 11th level magic-user
Fzoul Chembryl, 13th level cleric
Gunthor, 12th level fighter
Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun, 26+th level magic-user
Luvon Greencloak, 11th level magic-user
Manshoon, 16th level magic-user
Mazer, 11th level magic-user
Piergeiron, 14th level paladin
Rhauntides, 12th level magic-user
Sememmon, 12th level magic-user
The Simbul, 27th level magic-user
Vangerdahast, 15th level magic-user
Eltan, 20th level fighter
Scar, 14th level fighter
Moruene, 19th level magic-user

And those are only the ones in the "significant NPCs" section, and without the recently deceased ones (like Sylune). I think it's fair to say that Eberron is trying to be far more low-powered than FR is.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I bet the players could "run the world" the way barbarians could rule a kingdom - you have to defeat the kingdom's army, then you need to befriend the civil service.

Armies have a bad habit of being slow-moving and not too big - which is too say there's always going to be some part of the kingdom that's unprotected, so your enemies will send their armies there.

However, if your players have the ability to control an army and have the social and business acumen necessary to run a country, they have a decent chance of doing so.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I am currently running an Exalted campaign, which in some ways is rather similar to high-level D&D campaigns. And my PCs are also trying to take over a country because of a bet they made, and so far they have made a good effort.

In my opinion, if the PCs are powerful enough and work out a decent plan to take over a country, the GM should give them a good chance of succeeding. They are extraordinary people, after all, and taking over a country could be seen as much of an extraordinary feat as slaying an ancient dragon.

However, once you are ruling your own country, your problems aren't over - far from it! There are ambitious underling to keep in their place, conspiracies of various shape to stop, rivaling nations trying to grab your territory, an unbalanced budget, and the random monster of the week which has just eaten a village of your taxpayers.

Frankly, after some time like this, the PCs might conclude that adventuring was far safer. But now they can't go back...

But the main thing is that both the GM and the players have fun with this kind of story. And there is lots of fun to be had, indeed...

 

[Shroomy]

Between the Blood of Vol, the Dreaming Dark, the Daughters of Sora Kell, the daelkyr, the Lords of Dust, Mordain the Fleshweaver, etc., etc. Eberron does not seem that safe, even for 10th level characters.

 

[Henry]

I'm playing in an Eberron game now, and my character has just recently gained 10th level as well. So far, all the DM has stated is "a few people have heard of you." Sorry, but in a setting that claims that 10th level characters are very few, and PC's are exceptionsal, we should be getting more than a few. The 10th level mage in our party should be getting alot of respect has one of the most potent wizards known in Khorvaire. Instead, we get stuff like, the small town on the Breland border has heard of you, but that about it."

Your rant I can agree with. In an Eberron game we finished up with early this year, the PCs ended up at 10th leve, having just saved the world from extinction (I DM'ed it as very pulpy and epic, with a capital "E"). In the wrap-up, they were a household word, in everyplace EXCEPT outlying towns, and were each offered partnerships, diplomatic positions, memberships in exclusive organizations, etc. They were the heroes of the day.

If I pick it back up, the PCs will still be household names in Sharn, Stormhome, Fairhaven, and to a lesser extent Great Crag, Korth, Gatherhold, Newthrone, etc. Even The 'Dark will have knowledge of them (ESPECIALLY since a kalashtar and an Adaran human are in their number), and all the other power groups will be interested in either maneuvering past them, or in using them in their schemes. I also intend to widen the net a bit, and find reasons to involve them in Xen'drik, Droaam, a portion of Khyber, Sarlona, the Mournlands, etc.

 

[Crothian]

I'm playing in an Eberron game nwo, and my character has just recently gained 10th level as well. So far, all the DM has stated is "a few people have heard of you." Sorry, but in a setting that claims that 10th level characters are very few, and PC's are exceptionsal, we should be getting more than a few. The 10th level mage in our party should be getting alot of respect has one of the most potent wizards known in Khorvaire. Instead, we get stuff like, the small town on the Breland border has heard of you, but that about it."

Level and reputation are not all that related. It doesn't matter that you are high level, what matters is what you have done and if people have heard about it. Are the Bards singing about your group? Are epic poems being writen and word being spread across the land? Are you reminding people of all your past victories? Are you spreading the word of your own great deeds? Fame doesn't just happen just becasue you gained some levels.

 

[Anti-Sean]

Sorry about the rant, but I feel that instead of saying "oh look, the PC's think they are cool, I better make them look sad now," you should be letting them bask in their glory, and give them the chance to actually be a world power. Sure, there are bigger fish out there, but there always are.

I agree with this, but only because it's even more fun to give them their glory and then take it away then to just beat on them from day one. They look so adorably precious when they strut around all proud of their accomplishments. It makes the joy of watching them fall apart as they lose everything so much sweeter!

Between the Blood of Vol, the Dreaming Dark, the Daughters of Sora Kell, the daelkyr, the Lords of Dust, Mordain the Fleshweaver, etc., etc. Eberron does not seem that safe, even for 10th level characters.

Quoted because you mentioned the Daughters of Sora Kell, one of my favorite shadowy power groups, and one that's often overlooked.