Eberron: My players think they can rule the known world
- Thread starter megamania
- Start date
fnork de sporg
First Post
Well then that's all you need. You could probably get all that by 10th level. If you tried hard.
ruleslawyer
Registered User
But, as should be the point with any heroic fantasy game, any of them could be.
I think that aiming high is fine for your PCs! Your job as DM is not to defeat their hopes and aspirations; instead, it should be to remind them that achieving those goals is not that easy. I see it as quite appropriate for PCs to be lords, kings, guildmasters, and patriarch by high levels; they just have to set their minds to it and EARN it.
So, I'd let the PCs go for the gold. However, if their preferred method of doing it is to pick on the Five Nations, let them learn that the real likely winners from such a scenario are the true powers of Eberron, all of whom (with the exception of the Chamber) coincidentally happen to be evil: the daelkyr, the Dreaming Dark, the Lords of Dust, et cetera. In certain cases, those secret powers may be the REAL authority in a particular kingdom (I think of the Emerald Claw and Karrnath in this context). The PCs (assuming they're not interested in allying with one of these groups) will face a serious ethical and practical dilemma in deciding whether to devote their efforts to staving off the evil ambitions of [x] or pursuing their own quest for power.
Trying to rule the world makes for a GREAT campaign, and one that can keep the PCs going into high and epic levels. (My FR epic group has fractured into one roving Master Harper-at-large, one Baron, a reknowned loremaster attempting to amass a Candlekeep-sized magical library, a Cormyrean battlefield commander, and a tribal chieftain with dreams of empire-building.) I'd say run with it.
I think that aiming high is fine for your PCs! Your job as DM is not to defeat their hopes and aspirations; instead, it should be to remind them that achieving those goals is not that easy. I see it as quite appropriate for PCs to be lords, kings, guildmasters, and patriarch by high levels; they just have to set their minds to it and EARN it.
So, I'd let the PCs go for the gold. However, if their preferred method of doing it is to pick on the Five Nations, let them learn that the real likely winners from such a scenario are the true powers of Eberron, all of whom (with the exception of the Chamber) coincidentally happen to be evil: the daelkyr, the Dreaming Dark, the Lords of Dust, et cetera. In certain cases, those secret powers may be the REAL authority in a particular kingdom (I think of the Emerald Claw and Karrnath in this context). The PCs (assuming they're not interested in allying with one of these groups) will face a serious ethical and practical dilemma in deciding whether to devote their efforts to staving off the evil ambitions of [x] or pursuing their own quest for power.
Trying to rule the world makes for a GREAT campaign, and one that can keep the PCs going into high and epic levels. (My FR epic group has fractured into one roving Master Harper-at-large, one Baron, a reknowned loremaster attempting to amass a Candlekeep-sized magical library, a Cormyrean battlefield commander, and a tribal chieftain with dreams of empire-building.) I'd say run with it.
If they want to conquer- pulp handles it. They can walk into the kingdom of ______ and slay the king/queen and the royal guard all they want. It'd make for an amazing story if the four remaining nations united to retaliate, or even started bickering with each other in an effort to control the power vacuum as the generals of the now dead royalty splintered.
I don't like the blatent meta behind the idea that characters can justifiably start aiming for power as soon as their players notice they're beating certain nobles' statblocks, but as much as it ruffles my feathers, the story is too great to pass up. Eberron screams at me to see major powers turn it on its ear, and if that's a mad scientist with giant "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" flying laser robots or if it happens to be PCs out to carve a slice of the pie for themselves in the most bloody way possible so be it.
Khorvaire should, in my opinion, be theirs for the taking... leave the looming great threats in the shadows or on other continents (invasions? Fine.) The low poweredness of Khor. does, as previously mentioned, establish a great feeling that the PCs are all the protection the land truly has. Nebulous, looming dangers are a great way to either prevent havoc, or to give a reasonable, real consequence for the PC choice to destabilize their homeland/continent.
I understand the typical DM response to PC motivation is to establish obstacles- but fiat "no you can't" and "I'll make much bigger, non-noble NPCs to keep my players at bay/protect the setting" sentiment seems to generate less entertainment value than allowing these actions to occur with reasonable resistance. If "reasonable resistance" is being defined as greater than level 10, or unbeatable until near epic levels, then as far as I'm concerned, call a spade a spade- that's Greyhawk etc- not Eberron.
I don't like the blatent meta behind the idea that characters can justifiably start aiming for power as soon as their players notice they're beating certain nobles' statblocks, but as much as it ruffles my feathers, the story is too great to pass up. Eberron screams at me to see major powers turn it on its ear, and if that's a mad scientist with giant "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" flying laser robots or if it happens to be PCs out to carve a slice of the pie for themselves in the most bloody way possible so be it.
Khorvaire should, in my opinion, be theirs for the taking... leave the looming great threats in the shadows or on other continents (invasions? Fine.) The low poweredness of Khor. does, as previously mentioned, establish a great feeling that the PCs are all the protection the land truly has. Nebulous, looming dangers are a great way to either prevent havoc, or to give a reasonable, real consequence for the PC choice to destabilize their homeland/continent.
I understand the typical DM response to PC motivation is to establish obstacles- but fiat "no you can't" and "I'll make much bigger, non-noble NPCs to keep my players at bay/protect the setting" sentiment seems to generate less entertainment value than allowing these actions to occur with reasonable resistance. If "reasonable resistance" is being defined as greater than level 10, or unbeatable until near epic levels, then as far as I'm concerned, call a spade a spade- that's Greyhawk etc- not Eberron.
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Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
rulesy,
Regardless of that fact let's be factual. Galifar only rule ONE continent and even that was not entirely by his doing. (At least one source I recall mentioned something about the Dragons of Argonssen being involved) So while yes it's possible, I honestly do NOT see anyone ruling the entirity of Eberron, if only because the many OTHER powers that capable of doing epic if not DEIFIC things could concievable start to decimate 10th level PCs.
Regardless of that fact let's be factual. Galifar only rule ONE continent and even that was not entirely by his doing. (At least one source I recall mentioned something about the Dragons of Argonssen being involved) So while yes it's possible, I honestly do NOT see anyone ruling the entirity of Eberron, if only because the many OTHER powers that capable of doing epic if not DEIFIC things could concievable start to decimate 10th level PCs.
shilsen
Adventurer
clark411 said:
I agree with you totally that just DM fiating away any choice of the PCs becoming serious movers or shakers seems very unimaginative and unlikely to improve the game. That being said, I think you're underestimating the power levels of Eberron. The city of Sharn, for example, contains an elite military battalion (the Redcloaks) where the rank and file are 9th lvl, and which has a 16th lvl leader, with 14th lvl and 12th lvl lieutenants. And that's just one among the various legal forces in the city, not to mention the illegal ones and the individual NPCs. If I had a bunch of PCs trying to take over Sharn by force, playing the NPCs as intelligently as should be would mean a TPK unless it was a 20th lvl party, and possibly even then. Now Sharn is admittedly an unusual case, but any time a PC group tries to throw their weight around on a broad scale, that's the kind of opposition they're likely to run into at some point.
ruleslawyer
Registered User
Well, Nightfall what I understood from your post was "Yeah [, your PCs could rule Khorvaire] if they were Galifar. Seems to me none of these guys are." My point was merely that actually, any of them could be another Galifar with the right ambition and hard work. I don't think this is a "factual" issue per se, but a question of the direction in which the PCs want to push their characters and the direction in which the DM wants to take his campaign.Nightfall said:
As to the other powers involved: Well, sure. That's why I brought up the likely tension in the campaign. In reality, the PCs' actions, if undertaken on a selfish basis and against the legitimate nations of Khorvaire, are likely to help the bad guys (many of whom, as you note, are capable of epic deeds) advance their own position to the detriment of all. But, the PCs could end up ruling Khorvaire, if not the world of Eberron, some day. There has to be some motive for extending campaigns into epic levels, and IMHO, it shouldn't be about the entire world rising in level along with the PCs or the introduction into the campaign of a "no you can't" mentality and/or high/epic-level NPCs placed there specifically as a foil to the PCs' ambitions. (BTW, I don't see anyone with "deific" power detailed in the sourcebooks, but I'm not an Eberron completist.)
And yes, you want to avoid the players thinking that wrecking... er, ruling the campaign world should be a matter of hare-brained schemes and instant gratification. That's one reason I suggest confronting any players who try this with the realization that their actions will be potentially putting the world at the mercy of the BBEGs... whom the PCs themselves simply are not powerful enough to take on directly all at once. It's a nice dilemma.
