Eberron...pulp fantasy?

[The Shaman]

[Speaking of Eberron] I take it you're not terribly familiar with the 'pulp' literature of the early 1900s?

My group disliked [Eberron] because they thought it was too urban and are not big fans of the pulp genre.

I grabbed these two quotes more-or-less at random from the other Eberron thread.

I've heard Eberron referred to as a 'pulp' setting many times now - I have no idea what that means, and to be honest I wonder if the people who make that claim know what it means either, since no one seems to be able to explain it very well. It sounds more like a buzz word regurgitated from some ad copy.

I posed the question in the other thread, and never received a reply: what 'pulp' authors and stories form the basis for Eberron, or are reflected in the setting? What is a 'pulp' fantasy setting, anyway?

Remember, I'm not the fastest boat in the regatta - explain it to me like I'm a four year old.

 

[Desdichado]

Folks may quibble about using Wikipedia as a reference source, but personally I think pop culture references like this are exactly what it's best at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulps

In addition, the recommended reading list in the ECS book itself gives some great modern cinema examples that heavily use stylistic influences from pulp, and can therefore be considered the heirs of pulp, such as Indianna Jones, The Mummy, The Rocketeer, etc.

I also really like this summary, from the article linked above: "fast-paced, lurid, sensational and exploitative stories and thrilling cover art."

In a fantasy context, some of the more notable pulp authors would be Edgar Rice Burroughs, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith and others, but pulps were more than just fantasy, and had a lot of historical fiction, boy's adventure, and heck; even romance.

 

[Crothian]

I use Pulp Hero to define what Pulp is. Eberron can be done as Pulp, but the writing and adventures I've seen don't seem very Pulp like. It has elements of it but it is not strictly a pulp setting in my eyes.

 

[Klaus]

As always, Wikipedia is your friend:

"The name "pulp" comes from the cheap wood pulp paper on which such magazines were printed. Magazines printed on better paper and usually offering family-oriented content were often called "glossies" or "slicks". Pulps were the successor to the "penny dreadfuls", "dime novels", and short fiction magazines of the nineteenth century. Although many respected writers wrote for pulps, the magazines are perhaps best remembered for their fast-paced, lurid, sensational and exploitative stories and thrilling cover art. Modern superhero comic books are sometimes considered a descendent of "hero pulps"; pulp magazines often featured illustrated novel-length stories of heroic characters such as the Shadow, Doc Savage, and the Phantom Detective. However the pulps were aimed more at adult readers whereas comic books were traditionally written for children and adolescents."

 

[The Shaman]

In a fantasy context, some of the more notable pulp authors would be Edgar Rice Burroughs, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith and others, but pulps were more than just fantasy, and had a lot of historical fiction, boy's adventure, and heck; even romance.

Right, got that, which is part of my confusion - I've read through the setting book, and I don't get anything that resembles Howard, Leiber, or Smith, and only a smattering of Burroughs or Lovecraft out of it. I'm not understanding how Eberron fits the genre.

What else is on the Eberron recommended reading list?

 

[The Shaman]

(Snipped for brevity.)

Okay, I understand what pulp genre fiction is - let's apply that to Eberron now.

 

[JohnSnow]

I've heard Eberron referred to as a 'pulp' setting many times now - I have no idea what that means, and to be honest I wonder if the people who make that claim know what it means either, since no one seems to be able to explain it very well. It sounds more like a buzz word regurgitated from some ad copy.

I posed the question in the other thread, and never received a reply: what 'pulp' authors and stories form the basis for Eberron, or are reflected in the setting? What is a 'pulp' fantasy setting, anyway?

I'll give this a shot, but it's kinda hard to explain. "Pulp" is a genre descriptor that's usually used to describe stories that were published in the pulp magazines of the 1920s, 30s, and 40s. Pulp magazines published "weird" over-the-top adventure stories. They're sorta pre-comic books, actually, and a lot of characters made the transition from pulp to comics. Maybe it would be best if I gave a representative handful of "pulp" heroes.

- Flash Gordon
- Buck Rogers
- Tarzan
- The Shadow
- The Phantom
- Allan Quartermain (although he's a BIT early)
- Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser*
- Conan*

*These are a bit problematic in describing "Pulp" because they were SOO influential on early D&D. So they make "pulp D&D" kinda redundant.

Some more modern adventures with that pulp feel are:

- Indiana Jones
- The Mummy and The Mummy Returns
- Jurassic Park
- King Kong

Basically, it's a genre of over-the-top action with very human heroes. Dark conspiracies abound and exotic locales are the rule rather than the exception. Whereas typical medieval fantasy involves long epic quests and clashing armies, "Pulp Fantasy" involves chases through exotic lands, lost world type locations, dark continents, lost relics, secretive evil conspiracies, dastardly villains (who are not dark overgods, but humans or near humans) with believable agendas, and the like.

It's really easy to sense and very hard to describe. But the kicker is the heroes, and the feel of the action and the setting.

That probably wasn't a very good description, but it's close. Think "lower power comic-book light adventure."

 

[Desdichado]

Right, got that, which is part of my confusion - I've read through the setting book, and I don't get anything that resembles Howard, Leiber, or Smith, and only a smattering of Burroughs or Lovecraft out of it. I'm not understanding how Eberron fits the genre.

What else is on the Eberron recommended reading list?

None of those are on the Eberron recommended reading list, as my post states. Those are some examples I came up with as a fantasy context. The Eberron recommended list included movies that had a strong "pulp" flavor, like Indianna Jones, The Rocketeer, The Mummy, etc.

But I already said that. If you can't see a resemblance between Eberron and those, then I can't help you, I'm afraid.

 

[Glyfair]

It has elements of it but it is not strictly a pulp setting in my eyes.

I agree with this 100%. Eberron isn't defined by being a pulp setting, but pulps have strong influences on areas of the campaign setting.

Xen'drik in particular is tied into the Indiana Jones type pulps, as well as the Lost World style pulps. The Talenta plains have a bit of the Lost World feel as well (without too much of the isolation).

There is a also a strong amount of pulp influence in the urban adventures. I think Doc Savage and the Shadow would be right at home in Sharn, for example. Raymond Chandler & Dashiell Hammett is considered a pulp oriented writer and their works are mentioned as influences the noir feel of some areas.

The whole "eldritch machine" mechanic ties very well into the "Weird Science" pulp stories (although they'd become "Weird Magic" in Eberron).

 

[Shemeska]

In a fantasy context, some of the more notable pulp authors would be Edgar Rice Burroughs, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith and others, but pulps were more than just fantasy, and had a lot of historical fiction, boy's adventure, and heck; even romance.

While Lovecraft and C.A. Smith might have written for some of the early pulp magazines, I have a hard time calling anything that either of them wrote as pulp. Their respective styles have absolutely -nothing- in common with the 'pulp' style that Ebberon seems to have.

Eberron seems to try to go for the feel of Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, the Shadow, etc that style of more over the top, action oriented 'pulp', while not having much in common with the Lovecraft circle's contribution to the early pulp literature. In other words, and this is just my opinion of the style itself, it goes for a bit too much cheese for me to enjoy it as much as others might.