Eberron...pulp fantasy?

[Desdichado]

While Lovecraft and C.A. Smith might have written for some of the early pulp magazines, I have a hard time calling anything that either of them wrote as pulp. Their respective styles have absolutely -nothing- in common with the 'pulp' style that Ebberon seems to have.

I very much disagree. Both the Dreaming Dark and uh... drawing a blank here; the abberations group, feel very, very Lovecraftian to me. And CAS wrote all kinds of stuff (especially in the Zothique, Hyperborea and Averigoine (sic?) cycles) that already feel like pulp with a noir flair already pre-mixed in.

 

[gizmo33]

Okay, I understand what pulp genre fiction is - let's apply that to Eberron now.

Conan is probably "pulp fantasy", but I think what Eberron people mean by pulp fantasy is "fantasy done in the style of non-fantasy pulp stories". I shared your confusion up to this point, but I think I get it now - the pulp era already had a fantasy genre, which is either ignored by or unknown to those that use the "pulp fantasy" label for Eberron.

 

[The Shaman]

None of those are on the Eberron recommended reading list, as my post states. Those are some examples I came up with as a fantasy context. The Eberron recommended list included movies that had a strong "pulp" flavor, like Indianna Jones, The Rocketeer, The Mummy, etc.

Right, understood - I was just applying them to my read on the setting based on those authors.

The whole "eldritch machine" mechanic ties very well into the "Weird Science" pulp stories (although they'd become "Weird Magic" in Eberron).

That makes sense.

Basically, it's a genre of over-the-top action with very human heroes. Dark conspiracies abound and exotic locales are the rule rather than the exception. Whereas typical medieval fantasy involves long epic quests and clashing armies, "Pulp Fantasy" involves chases through exotic lands, lost world type locations, dark continents, lost relics, secretive evil conspiracies, dastardly villains (who are not dark overgods, but humans or near humans) with believable agendas, and the like.

This is helpful.

Here's why I find the application of the pulp genre label to Eberron confusing - what you've written above describes most of the Dungeons and Dragons games I've run over the years. I've never run a "high fantasy" game, if that would be the contrasting fiction genre - the closest I came was my self-consciously Tolkienesque three-oh HB setting, and even that owed much, much more to Leiber and Sabatini and Howard and Rider Haggard than Malory or Eddison or even the Professor himself.

I'm starting to understand a little better, though I will say that from what I've read of each, I consider Athas to be more of a pulp fantasy genre setting than Eberron - Athas is like something straight out of ERB...

Thank you all for the replies - most helpful.

 

[The Shaman]

Conan is probably "pulp fantasy", but I think what Eberron people mean by pulp fantasy is "fantasy done in the style of non-fantasy pulp stories". I shared your confusion up to this point, but I think I get it now - the pulp era already had a fantasy genre, which is either ignored by or unknown to those that use the "pulp fantasy" label for Eberron.

gizmo33 wins the thread!

That's EXACTLY where I was getting stuck. You nailed it.

 

[Abe.ebA]

I think "what's pulp" has been covered pretty thoroughly, so let me try "how is Eberron pulp" instead.

Now, bearing in mind that I've only read the campaign setting and the Sharn book and neither recently:
Eberron is pulp-y in that the setting is, at least partially, designed to offer lots of pulp-inspired plot lines.

The continent of Xen-Drik (sp?) alone offers hooks for an entire sub-genre of pulp: the explorer-adventurer. Indiana Jones is a modern example of this sort of thing but it was a pretty common theme in old pulp novels. The hero would be an academic who happened to be in tip-top physical condition, or a straight manly-man tough-as-nails type. They'd head off into Darkest Africa, the Burning Desert, or Burroughs' Mars or wherever and have adventures with the local flaura, fauna, and native peoples. Often-times it was in search of some lost treasure or other. I immediately thought of Burroughs' Mars books and Allan Quartermain when I saw the Xen-Drik section of the CS.

The shady figures and conspiratorial organizations that others mentioned being present in pulp novels enter Eberron thanks to the clan structure of the dragonmarked houses. All these people conspiring with and against one another leaves plenty of opportunity for back-alley dealings and underhanded skullduggery.

Sharn, specifically, capitalizes on at least three features of pulp genre fiction: the sleuth mystery, the death-defying chase, and the general urban setting of many pulp works. The whole hard-boiled gumshoe theme was pretty much invented during the pulp era (I think anyway... that's the impression I tend to get and I've always linked the two in my mind) and the Inquisitives of Sharn fill the role quite nicely. The towering..er..towers and prevalence of air-based travel leaves tons of opportunities for chase/fight scenes aboard flying carriages (think of the truck scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark, but happeneing at 2000 feet) or whatnot. And the sheer urban-ness of Sharn lets you set your campaign in the Big City if that's the feel you're going for.

Now, none of this deals at all with the other supplements and modules that have come out for Eberron. I've not been terribly interested by the Races/Magic of books and haven't read any of the modules, so for all I know Wizards has totally lost the plot on Eberron since the first couple of books came out. But the CS and Sharn were certainly pulpy; IMHO, anyway.

 

[Glyfair]

I'm starting to understand a little better, though I will say that from what I've read of each, I consider Athas to be more of a pulp fantasy genre setting than Eberron - Athas is like something straight out of ERB...

I think part of the issue is that, in general, when you say something is part of the pulp genre people don't think of Robert E. Howard and the like. They think of the pulp heroes and the pulp detectives. They only think of that genre when specifically refering to "pulp fantasy" (and usually you hear Sword & Sorcery more, since a bulk of pulp fantasy was Sword & Sorcery). Eberron isn't pulp fantasy, it's fantasy in the style of pulp fiction.

There were a lot of pulp genres. Personally, I have no interest in an RPG that has strong "Pulp Romance" elements

 

[Odhanan]

While Lovecraft and C.A. Smith might have written for some of the early pulp magazines, I have a hard time calling anything that either of them wrote as pulp. Their respective styles have absolutely -nothing- in common with the 'pulp' style that Ebberon seems to have.

I very much disagree as well, and suspect you are wearing some rose-tainted glasses on this one. I understand that the modern reader may have a problem seeing stories of Lovecraft of Clark Ashton Smith as being part of the pulp genre, but they were very much part of it. The whole thing of humans confronted to the amazing and unspeakable horrors hidden beyond Pluto, the Library of Aldebaran etc etc. I mean: that's pulp fiction right there! Pulp fiction doesn't mean "lame".

You can find this lovecraftian aspect of pulp in Eberron in the form of the realm of dreams, nightmares and the Quori (sp).

 

[Glyfair]

Now, none of this deals at all with the other supplements and modules that have come out for Eberron. I've not been terribly interested by the Races/Magic of books and haven't read any of the modules, so for all I know Wizards has totally lost the plot on Eberron since the first couple of books came out. But the CS and Sharn were certainly pulpy; IMHO, anyway.

For the most part, I think Sharn and the Explorer's Handbook have the strongest pulp of the supplements (Five Nations has some, as well). Most of the adventures in Dungeon magazine does as well. In fact, I think the strongest feel comes from the 3 adventures in the "Shards of Eberron" series. The problem is, you need to think about them as being pulp adventures before you run them, and it really wasn't emphasised.

 

[Grymar]

Here's one thing that I think can make Eberron more "pulpish" than other games, especially low level games...quick travel.

Compare LOTR with Indiana Jones. LOTR they spend three books walking to get to the main target (Mt. Doom). Indiana Jones has a scene where they talk about what they have to do, then they "red line" it to the final locale and do most of the story there.

LOTR fantasy is about the journey, pulp is often more about the action and skips the jorney part. Eberron helps that with the quick transportation available through the lightning trains, elemental galleons, and airships.

This is just one aspect of pulp adventure which I thought had been missed in the above posts.

 

[Odhanan]

Good call, Grymar. Good analogy.