Eberron`s internal consistency.

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Is it consistent when you apply basic Geograghy, Economics and History knowledge? It seems that magitech level is similar to 17th/18th age Europe, yet there is feudal system and very low demographics( I read that Khorvaire has a population of around 16 million, I assume main nations are around 2-3 millions and Sharn is around 200 000?) Well, it seems I can`t stand waiting for Amazon to deliver my book, I was impressed by FRCS, if it is better...

 

[Simplicity]

Is it consistent when you apply basic Geograghy, Economics and History knowledge? It seems that magitech level is similar to 17th/18th age Europe, yet there is feudal system and very low demographics( I read that Khorvaire has a population of around 16 million, I assume main nations are around 2-3 millions and Sharn is around 200 000?) Well, it seems I can`t stand waiting for Amazon to deliver my book, I was impressed by FRCS, if it is better...

Actually, not all of the governments are feudal. There is a parliamentary system in there, and one ruler is looking to transform to more of a parliamentary system.

The population does seem rather low, but there aren't really that many metropolises. Sharn is kind of an exception to the rule, it's not the standard city size.

 

[Dragonblade]

On the whole I consider the population demographic's of medieval fantasy cities to be far too low given the prevalence of magic and healing magic in particular.

Sharn having a population of 200,000 is far too low for such a large magical metropolis. I think Waterdeep's population of 1.3 million is far more realistic for such a great magical city.

Ancient Rome and London both had populations approaching or exceeding 1,000,000 people long before the Renaissance and despite the fact that magic did not exist. Edo (Tokyo) and Tenochtitlan to name a couple other ancient cities also had populations well over 1,000,000 people in ancient times.

I find it unrealistic that House Jorasco would have a monopoly on healing in Eberron when both clerics of the Sovereign Host and the especially the Silver Flame seek converts to their cause when free healing would go a long way to generating good will among the people.

It is also not realistic that good clerics would charge exorbitant fees to cast spells that cost themselves nothing to cast.

I also find the military demographics of most fantasy worlds to be laughable. In ancient times, the Romans likely had over 1,000,000 soldiers spread across their empire. The Persian Empire even once fielded a single army of 1,000,000 soldiers, personally led by King Xerxes, when they invaded ancient Greece. Its doubtful that the Persian king left his nation completely undefended so its safe to assume that probably several hundred thousand or more soldiers remained in Persia.

Yet most fantasy stories and novels talk about armies of 10,000 as if they are some massive invincible military force. 10,000 soldiers was not that large a force on ancient Earth and we didn't have any magic.

 

[d4]

On the whole I consider the population demographic's of medieval fantasy cities to be far too low given the prevalence of magic and healing magic in particular.

i think the continent's demographics as a whole are far too low, even given the major war that just ended. i think someone in another thread estimated that the population density of the continent was around 2 people per square mile.

that's lower than the population density of the Gobi Desert or the Sahara.

obviously, Eberron includes vast tracts of lightly-populated wilderness, but i'd be interested in seeing what the population densities of the settled lands are. i have a feeling they'll be much, much lower than even post-Black Plague Europe.

and is Sharn really only 200,000 people? that's smaller than 15th-century Paris or Moscow.

 

[Express]

I dont think the population numbers are such a casue for discomfiture. The population of mainland Khovaire is just under 16 million. Medieval Europe had by 1000 maybe 30 -40 million. However, I doot think you can correlate Earth and Eberron on a one to one basis.There are a few points Id keep in mind:

1. The "magitech" level of being roughly 17/18th century isnt necesarilly so. I see Eberron as very much a medieval place, with Final Fantasy esque tech added on. Again just because their are fantasy version of zepplins and trains doesnt make it Georgian, or for that matter, Edwardian England's correlary. Many things that make popualtion growth possible- sophsitcated methods of agriculture, stable trade networks, countries trading on somewhat modern system of money and credit dont exist in alot of Khovaire.

2. There are large regions that are unarable or depopulated or cant really support large populations. I mean you need to have places to grow food put horses to graze etc, magic or not. The Demon Wastes, Mournland, Talenta Plains and Shadow Marches dont look like prime agricultural areas.

The druids of the Eldeen Reaches wont like if you start chopping down trees to put up subdivisions, so cultural brakes exist on population growth too.

3. War would probably have a big effect on population level. Cyrene was destroyed in a magic A bomb type catastrophe. War brings disease famine and all other kinds of suffering. Just becasue you have magic healers doesnt mean its applied equally across the world. Look at our own world - how many people die in Third World nations of afflictions easily cured in the West?

4. Demographics of a fantasy world is different than ours. Many nations are dominated by humanoid or nonhuman races. Elves, orcs, goblins, gnolls, dwarves. They dont necessarily reproduce with the same frequency or reliablity of our world. And many of those nations have continuing ongoing fighting and fueding which would bring down the population a little.

BTW, I would not hold too much faith in the numbers given that Xerxes invaded ancient Greece with a million men. Ancient and medieval sources loved to boost the numbers in their histories, so while it was formidable it may not have been a million.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Eldragon]

Khorvaire Population -

Aundair - 2 Mil
Breland - 3.7 Mil
Darguun - .8 Mil
The Demon Wastes - .6 Mil
Droaam - .5 Mil
Eldeen Reaches - .5 Mil
Karrnath - 2.5 Mil
Lhazaar Principalities - .5 Mil
Mournland - .001 Mil
Mror Holds - .7 Mil
Q'Barra - .3 Mil
Shadow Marches - .5 Mil
Talenta Plains - .4 Mil
Thrane - 2.3 Mil
Valenar - .07 Mil
Zilargo - .25 Mil

Total = 15.621 Million.
At about 6.25 Million square miles, thats a hair under 2.5 people per square mile. Given that the region just went through a major war, and large portions of it are uninhabitable, it seems fairly reasonable. IMHO the population numbers are a bit low, 30 million people for the whole continent seems a little better.

Remember, Its just a fantasy book, lets not take it too seriously. Population demographics are no that important.

 

[Quasqueton]

Are orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, gnolls, kobolds, centaurs, etc. included in the population numbers? Or do the numbers only reflect the PHB races?

How about ogres, trolls, giants, etc.? How about magical beasts, aberrations, fey, etc.?

Quasqueton

 

[TheFan]

It probably only recognizes the "recognized" races in any region. Thus it fails to take into account the "monster" races (though of course this is relative in a place like Droaam), so you can probably assume that in any given region marauding bands equal to or slightly less than the recognized population of sentient creatures exist.

 

[d4]

Khorvaire Population -

does the book include areas for the kingdoms as well? i'm curious what the population densities of the specific regions are, rather than trying to average it out over the whole continent (which is going to give a skewed, and much lower, estimate).

 

[BelXiror]

Total = 15.621 Million.
At about 6.25 Million square miles, thats a hair under 2.5 people per square mile. Given that the region just went through a major war, and large portions of it are uninhabitable, it seems fairly reasonable. IMHO the population numbers are a bit low, 30 million people for the whole continent seems a little better.

Current Australian Population :-
On 28 June 2004 at 17:34:30 (Canberra time), the resident population of Australia is projected to be:

20,130,620
Found Here

Country Size :-
total: 7,686,850 sq km
land: 7,617,930 sq km
water: 68,920 sq km

Found here


Works out to just over 4 people per square mile, and we haven't just come out of a 100 year war, and don't have to share the continent with hostile critters.

Well... Not TOO hostile... Those drop bears are pretty nasty ;p