D&D 4E Eberron: The Artificer in 4e...

[Remathilis]

This is a brainstorming thread.

The 4e Eberron guide isn't coming out till 2009, although Gleemax DDI has promised us a "working" version of most Eberron specific material until its coming.

However, I'm concerned on how the artificer will work in 4e. Its too iconic in Eberron to just can it, but I'm not sure how it will be defined...

1.) Its power source is specifically described as "neither arcane nor divine" so that means it will need to be a new power source when it comes out.

2.) I'm not sure what "role" it fills, its not a defender (d6 hd, med bab) nor is it a striker (it has no direct combat abilities). It also really doesn't "control" anything either (no area spells cept blade barrier) so I guess its a leader. However, its not really a healer class either (unless your a warforged) but it does act as a buffer.

3.) Magic Item Creation is completely different. Artificers live on quick and easy magic item creation, and we know MIC is now a ritual, not a feat. And since there is apparently no limit on rituals, (whereas there is on feats in 3e) a wizard can take all the proper rituals and be effective elsewhere, making the artificer (initially) seem redundant.

4.) The rest of its abilities are similarly redundant. Anyone trained in "thievery" can disable traps, anyone trained in Arcana and sense magical auras. You don't need XP to make stuff, so craft reserve is useless. And we're wholly uncertain how Use Magic Device works (if it exists) in 4e.

5.) Lastly, there are infusions. Most of them either a.) affect constucts or b.) create temp magical items. In theory, both are viable, but the new "big three" being worked into the math as such seems like it can be limiting on the latter area. And since constructs don't appear to have Magic Resistance or DR, most normal spells and weapons seem to work just fine...

The artificer is a very viable concept, but I'm not sure if 4e leaves room for it. Anyone have any suggestions as to what a reconcepted artificer class might look like? (and if you work for WotC or your name is Keith Baker, feel free to chime right in).

 

[hong]

"Leader" means support. Healing is a subclass of support, but so is buffing.

 

[Peter LaCara]

I'm honestly wondering if the artificer is a strong enough concept to support an entire class on its own now. They might be better modeled as a Wizard/Rogue, or perhaps treated as a paragon path.

 

[Voss]

I'm honestly wondering if the artificer is a strong enough concept to support an entire class on its own now. They might be better modeled as a Wizard/Rogue, or perhaps treated as a paragon path.

Either of those would be better than the 3e version. Nothing quite like a class that asks, 'how would you like to break the game today?'

 

[LordArchaon]

Well, I think that Eberron will come up with a new "artifice" power source. If they keep the concept tied to one class only, it will definitely become a leader, with special construct buffing abilities and magic item making for everyone. I guess they'll also make it so that some items will be usable during a fixed number (1?) of encounters or something like that, I mean they're basically gonna cut out the artificer's "stacking power level" (or else, give time to an artificer and he/she will take over your [campaign] world) if they're gonna make it on par with all the other classes (and they will).

An alternative would be making two or three classes for this new, Eberron-specific, "artifice power source", and they could basically be replacement for the other classes with the difference that they're gonna need some kind of preparation to use their powers, because they'll need to make the items first, or something like that.

Who knows...

 

[Falling Icicle]

However, I'm concerned on how the artificer will work in 4e. Its too iconic in Eberron to just can it, but I'm not sure how it will be defined...

1.) Its power source is specifically described as "neither arcane nor divine" so that means it will need to be a new power source when it comes out.

Just because it didn't have an arcane or divine power source before doesn't mean it can't be arcane in 4e. It's also possible that its power source will be something like "magitech."

2.) I'm not sure what "role" it fills, its not a defender (d6 hd, med bab) nor is it a striker (it has no direct combat abilities). It also really doesn't "control" anything either (no area spells cept blade barrier) so I guess its a leader. However, its not really a healer class either (unless your a warforged) but it does act as a buffer.

Roles are one of my fears about 4e. I fear that any class that doesn't neatly fit into one of the 4 roles will either be reinvented so that it does (making it unrecognizable to those who enjoyed its old form) or will simply be scrapped altogether. I really worry about the limbo the Druid, Necromancer and others have been placed in because of the rigid roles.

I think the Artificer could fit into the leader role, though. Leaders are effectively the support role in 4e, and if an artificer isn't a support class, I don't know what is. Most of its abilities involve buffing allies' equipment or "healing" constructs. And as we've seen from the cleric, even leaders can have pretty potent offensive abilities. The hardest thing to justify would be healing others, but since artificers use magic devices regardless of power source, they could use devices to heal. It might be able to make temporary potions that allow allies to use healing surges, or perhaps it can channel healing energy though a wand or other item.

3.) Magic Item Creation is completely different. Artificers live on quick and easy magic item creation, and we know MIC is now a ritual, not a feat. And since there is apparently no limit on rituals, (whereas there is on feats in 3e) a wizard can take all the proper rituals and be effective elsewhere, making the artificer (initially) seem redundant.

The artificer could get other benefits that make it better at creating magic items than other classes, such as a reduction in time and gp cost and/or easier access to the rituals. Until we learn more about 4e item creation, it's hard to speculate any further.

4.) The rest of its abilities are similarly redundant. Anyone trained in "thievery" can disable traps, anyone trained in Arcana and sense magical auras. You don't need XP to make stuff, so craft reserve is useless. And we're wholly uncertain how Use Magic Device works (if it exists) in 4e.

I don't see this is a problem. It could simply get Arcana and Thievery as class skills, maybe even automatic class skills. And even though UMD doesn't appear to be a normal skill in 4e, it doesn't mean artificers can't have UMD as a special class ability.

5.) Lastly, there are infusions. Most of them either a.) affect constucts or b.) create temp magical items. In theory, both are viable, but the new "big three" being worked into the math as such seems like it can be limiting on the latter area. And since constructs don't appear to have Magic Resistance or DR, most normal spells and weapons seem to work just fine...

There's plenty of other things infusions can do that would fit the class. Much of the functionality of Use Magic Device could be folded into their infusions. For example, maybe artificers can duplicate an observed spell or prayer as a daily power. Maybe they can draw upon the energy in an implement to use a power that would normally require that implement, even one they don't/can't know. Perhaps their greatest powers may be in the devices they make. Instead of getting an encounter power, maybe an artificer can create and attune an item that works once per encounter. Instead of getting a daily power, an artificer builds a device that can be used once per day. Their devices could be their implements.

 

[kennew142]

Either of those would be better than the 3e version. Nothing quite like a class that asks, 'how would you like to break the game today?'

Voss and I do not often agree, but sometimes great minds think alike.

I play an artificer in 3e. If we manage to gather any information about the dangers we'll be facing, the scenario becomes a cake walk - a boring cake walk.

I wish I had something constructive to add about how artificers will work in 4e, but I've been mulling it over since the 4e announcement and have no clue.

 

[Lord Nat]

I can see it working in a few ways really.

Striker: on the fly damage dealing magic items and item based powers. Such as one that can add damage to wands (or whatever magic gun replacement there is) or to change a normal stick into a powerful staff for one encounter (say as a per-day power).

Leader: Item buffer that gives support with magic item based powers. like how in 3e you can make the party (with some planing) all have bane weapons fitting to the encounter.

I'd like to see a mix of the two my self. plus maybe some class powers to make magic item crafting faster/cheaper (based on how the rules look). Or maybe take a FMA style too it and just have the Artificer popping out random items you need.

Tho from what has been hinted at it sounds like it is going to be a near NPC class.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

The artificer will probably simply be a controller. You give him wacky implement like a blunderbuss and enough area effect such as napalm-like bombs and deadly gases to fill the role and then you can add whatever iconic powers he had so that his fans are happy.

 

[Shroomy]

When I first saw the title of this thread, "Arcane Leader" lept to my mind.