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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7974646" data-attributes="member: 18">So you're not acknowledging the effort that goes into providing evidence that a class has issues, nor agreeing that you wouldn't just walk away or dismiss the evidence if I provided it? Ok, well it's clear that you aren't actually looking for reasoned criticism of the classes.Also, you didn't answer any of my other questions, nor did you comment on the spells. You certainly cannot, in good faith, claim that the subclasses are "balanced" without looking at those spells. I admit you said you "bet" not that they "were" (I'm not going to put words in your mouth here), but I feel this is a bit of a silly position.And no, critting on a 19/20 is not remotely as useful to an intelligent player as this is. I feel like you know this.This is definitely not true. The Echo Knight power, in the hands of a player with any tactical aptitude at all, is drastically more dangerous in combat, and costs far less to use, particularly in terms of action economy.ID is a drastically limited thing. It requires the following:1) Concentration to maintain. If you get damaged, it probably goes away, and you're a Cleric, so it prevents you from using a very large number of excellent spells, because they also require Concentration.2) An Action to generate. Compared to a Bonus Action. This is a hugely greater cost in the action economy. According to 5E's designers, few combats should last over three rounds (and that does largely match my experience, particularly at lower levels). So on average, you're using up 33% of the actions you'll get in a combat, simply to summon something to ALLOW you to potentially later cast spells from it. That's pretty poor.3) It costs you a Bonus Action to move it up to 30ft. As opposed to a free action.4) Literally the only benefits it offers, or threats it creates are that you can cast spells from that location (but you had to burn an action to even be able to do that), and it provides Advantage for you and only you on attack rolls against a creature if it's within 5 feet. It doesn't cause OAs or whatever, though, so even with Warcaster, people can just move away from it and you'll have to burn your bonus action every turn shuffling it around.Yes, it can't be killed, but enemies will likely immediately realize this (after the first attack passes harmlessly through it), and there's no real need to "kill" it, because it's non-threatening. Whereas the Echo can make full attacks, and does OAs, so is extremely threatening if it comes up next to you, and thus actually may need to be killed.You get 1/SR for 1-5, 2/SR for 6-17, and 3/SR 18-20. My suspicion would be that, given the opportunity cost of using it, many SRs will actually pass without you having used it. Especially as CD can also be used to Turn stuff, which if it can happen, is typically amazing.This is not a comparable ability, nor should it be, frankly. If no concentration was required, and the action economy was the same as EK, it'd still be significantly behind, but not laughably so. I'm assuming you simply overlooked those elements rather than excluding them.</blockquote>

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