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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7974756" data-attributes="member: 18">Oh. It's first post in the chain you responded to, the second post in the thread <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Yes it's a lovely synergy, but don't be dissing my ability to know optimization stuff when you're literally describing a fairly middle-of-the-pack optimization as your example, is what I'm saying. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> You can a lot better than that with Champion.Thing is, with "real play", I agree Champions reliably do good damage, but they can't leverage it. They can't create or manipulate situations to take advantage of that. They just have to keep trying to hit things and not get prevented from hitting things. My experience is that any class which has abilities that can be leveraged like the Echo Knight's very clearly can be (I can see so many times they would have been insanely killer in the adventure I'm playing most weekends), where smart play and good tactics can make them distinctly more powerful, is going to be extremely powerful, potentially dominating. I don't think Echo Knights are "broken OP", again to be clear, but I do think that they are really at the very top for Fighter subclasses (not in pure DPR, no Fighter subclass except maybe Brute has ever beaten 2H Champions at that AFAIK), but in terms of overall effectiveness, pulling enemy attacks off other targets to attempt to hit their ghost(s), getting enemies to blow AEs to try and deal with them, and so on, as well as doing solid DPR (likely with more opportunity for OAs, and more lockdown on the enemy back line), they're going to be ahead.</blockquote>

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