ECL and LA for monstrous characters

[Malar's Cow]

I have a player wanting to play a hobgoblin character. According to the house rules of my game, a new character starts at an ECL of one less than the average of the party, so the ECL of the new character will be 4. The character wants to take levels in barbarian.

Reading the Monster Manual, the entry for hobgoblin states that it has a Level Adjustment of +1, and an ability bonus of +2 Dex, +2 Con. Seems easy enough; the new character can take three levels in barby, and with the +1 LA has an ECL of 4.

But when I read page 192 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide, there seems to be an entirely different set of rules for creation of monstrous characters. After reading these and applying them to the hobgoblins base ability scores, it would seem that it gets a +2 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Wis and –2 Cha.

Furthermore, the DMG states that a creature with one or less hit dice, a Level Adjustment and class levels adds all three together to determine its ECL, which means that a hobgoblin would add one for its hit dice, one for its LA and the number of class levels together, meaning that if I want an ECL 4 character, the new character could only have two levels in Barbie.

I’m thoroughly confused, and can’t understand why there seems to be two seemingly different sets of rules governing monstrous player characters. Please help!

 

[Pinotage]

Your first assessment is correct - the hobgoblin takes 3 levels in Barbarian to gain ECL 4, and gets a +2 Dex and a +2 Con.

The difference between the MM and the DMG is not the method but the creature. A hobgoblin has an NPC class and so gets the non-elite array of stats to indicate that it is a hobgoblin above the normal. You don't apply the DMG method to those. Creatures that don't have classes list stats for a standard, average, run-of-the-mill creature of its kind and hence the DMG method will allow you to extract its racial modifiers to stats.

Once you use classes, you can start using the non-elite starting array of stats and add the racial bonuses to them. Basically the hobgoblin warrior is an unique creature of its kind with slightly higher than average stats. Your average hobgoblin would have stats along the lines of 10 or 11 in each ability score. Then you can add +2 to Dex and +2 Con. Have a look at the section in the SRD on 'Improving Monsters'.

Pinotage

 

[edhel]

SRD says that hobgobs have
Str 11, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10 (= +2 Dex/Con)

-- EDIT: whoops, this was from a 3.0 SRD, it could've changed in 3.5

MM hobgolin probably has non-elite array (3x 11, 3x 10) with different emphasis (but with the same amount of points). It's something like 13, 12, 10, 10, 10, 8.

IIRC, these things are mentioned in Advancing monsters part of MM.

 

[dcollins]

Furthermore, the DMG states that a creature with one or less hit dice, a Level Adjustment and class levels adds all three together to determine its ECL, which means that a hobgoblin would add one for its hit dice, one for its LA and the number of class levels together, meaning that if I want an ECL 4 character, the new character could only have two levels in Barbie.

On this issue, what you're missing is the fact that 1 HD creatures replace the 1 HD with their first class level. Hence the hobgoblin in your case will have 0 racial HD (got replaced by Brb1), +1 LA, and 3 class levels, for a total ECL of 4.

From the SRD, under "Improving Monsters: Monsters and Class Levels":

Humanoids and Class Levels: Creatures with 1 or less HD replace their monster levels with their character levels. The monster loses the attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, skills, and feats granted by its 1 monster HD and gains the attack bonus, save bonuses, skills, feats, and other class abilities of a 1st-level character of the appropriate class.

 

[Malar's Cow]

Thanks for the quick help, as always. It makes sense now, thanks to your responses.