ECL of an awakened magebreed clawfoot?
- Thread starter brehobit
- Start date
I agree. Keep in mind that the +4/+2/+2 you get from the Magebred template would only amount to an extra 8 or 9 points, if you start from the default 10/10/10/11/11/11 base stats.brehobit said:
Mind you, with the extra bennies you get from Magebred, the two don't come close to canceling each other out (you still have that +2 AC, one extra feat, plus one of Swift/Thick-skinned/Tracking). Maybe Magebred may need to be counted as +2 LA. We'd have to do an "acid test" (probably comparison with Monk or Fighter) to figure out it's exact ECL.
brehobit - could you post the exact choices you made for Magebred? Maybe I can do a quick Fighter comparison later this weekend...
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lukelightning
First Post
demiurge1138 said:
I would personally say that they could hold a sword but not wield it; sure they could grab things but they had no thumb; the way they would grab their prey would probably be with both claws.
So... we get:
Awakened Magebred Clawfoot Fighter 1:
Medium magical beast (augmented animal)
Hit Dice: 4d8+1d10+15 (38 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (+4 Dex, +7 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+10
Attack: Talons +10 melee (1d8+6)
Full Attack: Talons +10 melee (1d8+6) and 2 foreclaws +8 melee (1d3+3) and bite +8 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: low-light vision, scent, darkvision 60'
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +2
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills: Hide +13, Jump +23, Listen +10, Spot +10, Survival +10, +6 skill points (total 51 ranks and racial bonuses)
Feats: Run, multi-attack, two more feats
Level Adjustment: ?
vs.
Human Fighter 7
Hit Dice: 7d10 (38 HP)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. in full plate armor (4 squares); base speed 30 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (+1 Dex, +8 full plate), touch 11, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+11
Attack: Greatsword +11 melee (2d6+6)
Full Attack: Greatsword +11/+6 melee (2d6+6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +3
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 11
Skills: total 30 ranks
Feats: 4 general + 4 Fighter
These guys seem reasonably well matched (note that I gave the human Ftr a 28 pointbuy, plus one stat increase at Ftr4), but that's only because I gave the human full plate whereas the dino has to rely on its own thick skin.
If you assume that in a world where Clawfeet are standard riding animals, barding for them should be failry easy to get at, it would be entirely fair to give the Clawfoot an extra +5 AC as well (+8 from plate barding, but Dex AC goes down by 3). In that, case, I think the Clawfoot would pull well ahead of the human Ftr7, with 6 more points of AC, plus better saves and skills, and longer Full Attack sequence (but a few less feats and lower damage per hit).
Assuming your DM isn't an
about letting your clawfoot wear armor, I would put it at a minimum of ECL 7. If you DM lets the Clawfoot yield a weapon (Greatsword 2d6+9) and manipulate items (e.g. healing your PC by getting a potion out of its pack and feeding it to you), I would probably put it at ECL 8. (Keep in mind that manual dexterity is even more important for a cohort ECL!)
Awakened Magebred Clawfoot Fighter 1:
Medium magical beast (augmented animal)
Hit Dice: 4d8+1d10+15 (38 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (+4 Dex, +7 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+10
Attack: Talons +10 melee (1d8+6)
Full Attack: Talons +10 melee (1d8+6) and 2 foreclaws +8 melee (1d3+3) and bite +8 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: low-light vision, scent, darkvision 60'
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +2
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills: Hide +13, Jump +23, Listen +10, Spot +10, Survival +10, +6 skill points (total 51 ranks and racial bonuses)
Feats: Run, multi-attack, two more feats
Level Adjustment: ?
vs.
Human Fighter 7
Hit Dice: 7d10 (38 HP)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. in full plate armor (4 squares); base speed 30 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (+1 Dex, +8 full plate), touch 11, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+11
Attack: Greatsword +11 melee (2d6+6)
Full Attack: Greatsword +11/+6 melee (2d6+6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +3
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 11
Skills: total 30 ranks
Feats: 4 general + 4 Fighter
These guys seem reasonably well matched (note that I gave the human Ftr a 28 pointbuy, plus one stat increase at Ftr4), but that's only because I gave the human full plate whereas the dino has to rely on its own thick skin.
If you assume that in a world where Clawfeet are standard riding animals, barding for them should be failry easy to get at, it would be entirely fair to give the Clawfoot an extra +5 AC as well (+8 from plate barding, but Dex AC goes down by 3). In that, case, I think the Clawfoot would pull well ahead of the human Ftr7, with 6 more points of AC, plus better saves and skills, and longer Full Attack sequence (but a few less feats and lower damage per hit).
Assuming your DM isn't an
about letting your clawfoot wear armor, I would put it at a minimum of ECL 7. If you DM lets the Clawfoot yield a weapon (Greatsword 2d6+9) and manipulate items (e.g. healing your PC by getting a potion out of its pack and feeding it to you), I would probably put it at ECL 8. (Keep in mind that manual dexterity is even more important for a cohort ECL!)
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brehobit
Explorer
Thanks, I appreciate that you took the time to do this!Conaill said:So... we get:
Awakened Magebred Clawfoot Fighter 1:
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If you assume that in a world where Clawfeet are standard riding animals, barding for them should be failry easy to get at, it would be entirely fair to give the Clawfoot an extra +8 AC as well! In that, case, I think the Clawfoot would pull well ahead of the human Ftr7, with 9 more points of AC, plus better saves and skills, and longer Full Attack sequence (but a few less feats and lower damage per hit).
Assuming your DM isn't an
Yeah, a clawfoot can wear barding pretty much at the same cost as a horse as I recall (maybe 2x). Mine currently has "chain shirt" barding.
Does your +7 LA really mean an ECL of 7? So really an LA of +2? 4 racial hit dice + 1 class +2 LA?
That said, I agree with your analysis. The fighter will actually be dealing more damage on a full attack due to an assumed weapon specialization/weapon focus and enchanted weapon (which the clawfoot can't have). The clawfoot has a _much_ better AC. So I'm at a +2 with straight stats (10s and 11s), +3 with normal point buy. Making this bad boy a +3 LA as a PC. Sounds about right.
Doh! Yes, of course, ECL 7. I'd be tempted to bump it up to ECL 8 with tool-using forearms, even if they can't hold a weapon. It already has decent natural weapons anyway, and for a cohort, using tools (potions, wands, rummaging through backpacks, loading crossbows...) is more useful anyway.brehobit said:
I also corrected the AC's somewhat, adjusting for the lower Max Dex of full plate. Note that a smart Clawfoot will be looking out for a set of Mithral full plate to take advantage of its high Dex to get an extra +2 AC. (A Mithral breastplate would be a cheaper alternative, but what's a extra 6000 gp if you're already high enough level to have a 7th or 8th level cohort anyway...)
