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Message: <blockquote data-quote="abri" data-source="post: 70237" data-attributes="member: 1080">Ok, the small problem I have with it is that among the people I know, people WON'T take the class you normally associate with the race, and these ECL were determined with only the most efficient class in mind.And sorry, playing a killing machine is not my idea of fun, I expect characters to be usefull outside of combat. IMC, social interaction, investigation and streetsmarts are essentials, for every character: they will be separated and each will try to bring something to the investigation.  An ogre PC will be expected to do something out of combat, so he'll have to put a good score in INT to compensate. IMC one of the cohort is a  ranger 3 ogre (with ECL+4) and he was never more powerful than the fighters in the groups. He did his job well of protecting his wood elf rogue master (L9), and completed him nicely but the rogue was much more dangerous.The ECL +4 already didn't seemed right as he wasn't maxed out.That's an important point: people who want's to play these monsters are not min/maxer (who are NEVER going to take a race with ECL), so these characters needs a break.Because sorcerer or druid ogre, fighter succubus, mage troll, paladin pixies... are what my players would be more interested, and with these ECL they are not going to survive<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />.OK, one of my player in another campaign needs a new L9 character I'll give him a tooled-up killer ogre at ECL+4 and let's see how he does (Ps: the clerics and fighters in the groups are maxed out for combat).Results in 3 days (scenario with 50% investigation/50% combat from hell)</blockquote>

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