Mal Malenkirk
First Post
If you remember, there has been a controversy in the past weeks over the ECL of Monsters as published in Dragon Magazine.
Beside the lizardfolk (ECL 4), the Ogre were singled as having an unreasonably high ECL. Some felt that ECL 8 made the ogre useless as PCs.
As I mentionned in previous posts, I designed a 3rd level fighter Ogre (ECL 11) that would adventure with my 11th level party in order to see if he was a deadweight or if he was actually useful.
See my post in this thread for the stats of Ghorgor (It's about the fifth post from the top)
I had an human 11th level fighter NPC that was also adventuring with the PCs in order to provide a counterpoint. Sadly, this NPC already existed IMC and wasn't designed to exactly mirror Ghorgor. He favored light armor, scimitar and shield over heavy armor and THW.
Still, the result were very encouraging and I'm pleased to say that Ghorgor was very present in and out of the battlefield.
The first session only had one fight scene and lasted about 3h30 so I can't draw definitive conclusion but here are my first observations;
Before we entered combat, Ghorgor was fun to play. Was he useful out of combat? Some people felt that because the ogre was less useful socially than a normal fighter, he should get an edge in fighting.
Let me put it this way; Socially Ghorgor was exactly as useful as the 11th level human fighter, the 11th level psychic warrior or the awakened tiger: Not at all.
Does it matter for game balance that the fighter can attempt diplomacy check at -1 while Ghorgor must do it at -3 (and circumstance penalty)? Nope. Because anyway it's the cleric with his +10 who will do any diplomacy check that need to be done. Or perhaps the rogue with his lower diplomacy but his much better bluff.
But Ghorgor was still just as involved and fun nonetheless. His shameful secret (he loves to paint) came up and his surpising intellect lead him to talk philosophy with the awakened tiger. What more do you need to have fun when roleplaying?
(Yeah I know, fun is not a balance factor, don't point it out)
COMBAT:
How did he do? Very well. He hits like a jackhammer! And he is a true terror with cleave. He might be the first (N)PC in one of my campaign that might have some use for great cleave; because of his reach he can usually find someone to use cleave on. As a matter of fact he cleaved twice in the fight.
His opponents were all Large: half-construct ogres and a minotaur. Ghorgor's reach allowed him to charge without getting AoOed and threaten more than one opponent at a time. The other PCs couldn't do that.
Did he overshadow the fighter or the psychic warrior?
Well it wasn't a good fight for the PsyWar, he got grappled early and didn't do much. Still, no one else has a move of 50 and an AC of 30 when powered up! As for the fighter, let me put it this way; he has a significant edge in HP, 1 more attack than Ghorgor, a slightly better Attack bonus and quite a lot of feat. In fact, he had spring attack which made him the PC who had the easier time engaging the ogres after Ghorgor himself.
My fears: If fireballs and lightning bolts start raining down he might have some trouble because of his relatively low HP as opposed to the other front line fighters. I guess this would put a premium on finding items that protect against common energy damages. His will save is a little weak but isn't much lower than that of most fighters.
What I would like to see in the following session: I'd like to see the player controlling Ghorgor in combat use Bullrush, Disarm, Sunder and Trip (with his stone halberd). These are tactics that favor Ghorgor, especially against M opponents.
Overall:
So far, so good. Ghorgor is holding his own and I have a blast roleplaying him.
More fight will help to better gauge the situation.
Beside the lizardfolk (ECL 4), the Ogre were singled as having an unreasonably high ECL. Some felt that ECL 8 made the ogre useless as PCs.
As I mentionned in previous posts, I designed a 3rd level fighter Ogre (ECL 11) that would adventure with my 11th level party in order to see if he was a deadweight or if he was actually useful.
See my post in this thread for the stats of Ghorgor (It's about the fifth post from the top)
I had an human 11th level fighter NPC that was also adventuring with the PCs in order to provide a counterpoint. Sadly, this NPC already existed IMC and wasn't designed to exactly mirror Ghorgor. He favored light armor, scimitar and shield over heavy armor and THW.
Still, the result were very encouraging and I'm pleased to say that Ghorgor was very present in and out of the battlefield.
The first session only had one fight scene and lasted about 3h30 so I can't draw definitive conclusion but here are my first observations;
Before we entered combat, Ghorgor was fun to play. Was he useful out of combat? Some people felt that because the ogre was less useful socially than a normal fighter, he should get an edge in fighting.
Let me put it this way; Socially Ghorgor was exactly as useful as the 11th level human fighter, the 11th level psychic warrior or the awakened tiger: Not at all.
Does it matter for game balance that the fighter can attempt diplomacy check at -1 while Ghorgor must do it at -3 (and circumstance penalty)? Nope. Because anyway it's the cleric with his +10 who will do any diplomacy check that need to be done. Or perhaps the rogue with his lower diplomacy but his much better bluff.
But Ghorgor was still just as involved and fun nonetheless. His shameful secret (he loves to paint) came up and his surpising intellect lead him to talk philosophy with the awakened tiger. What more do you need to have fun when roleplaying?
(Yeah I know, fun is not a balance factor, don't point it out)
COMBAT:
How did he do? Very well. He hits like a jackhammer! And he is a true terror with cleave. He might be the first (N)PC in one of my campaign that might have some use for great cleave; because of his reach he can usually find someone to use cleave on. As a matter of fact he cleaved twice in the fight.
His opponents were all Large: half-construct ogres and a minotaur. Ghorgor's reach allowed him to charge without getting AoOed and threaten more than one opponent at a time. The other PCs couldn't do that.
Did he overshadow the fighter or the psychic warrior?
Well it wasn't a good fight for the PsyWar, he got grappled early and didn't do much. Still, no one else has a move of 50 and an AC of 30 when powered up! As for the fighter, let me put it this way; he has a significant edge in HP, 1 more attack than Ghorgor, a slightly better Attack bonus and quite a lot of feat. In fact, he had spring attack which made him the PC who had the easier time engaging the ogres after Ghorgor himself.
My fears: If fireballs and lightning bolts start raining down he might have some trouble because of his relatively low HP as opposed to the other front line fighters. I guess this would put a premium on finding items that protect against common energy damages. His will save is a little weak but isn't much lower than that of most fighters.
What I would like to see in the following session: I'd like to see the player controlling Ghorgor in combat use Bullrush, Disarm, Sunder and Trip (with his stone halberd). These are tactics that favor Ghorgor, especially against M opponents.
Overall:
So far, so good. Ghorgor is holding his own and I have a blast roleplaying him.
More fight will help to better gauge the situation.
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