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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Axiomatic Unicorn" data-source="post: 70364" data-attributes="member: 1974">The authors of the Dragon Article are looking for feedback before these ECLs are published in a more official form.I suggest you e-mail them.But instead of saying that the ECL for an ogre needs to be lower to help out ogre wizards, try this instead:Tell them that they need to add a discussion of what the standard ECLs really mean.  Add an explanation that the ECLs are set for the ideal case (as they should be) and that DMs should seriously consider each application on a case by case basis.  If they make it official that the ogre ECL is +8 and also make it official that DM/player should be able to consider that a benchmark for establishing the ECL for less optimal cases, both sides should be happy.  I can point to an official rule and tell my ogre barbarian player has an official ECL of +8 and you can tell your DM that your ogre mage has an official ECL of less than +8.The problem is that the core game is not really designed to handle this stuff.  Compare the half-orc for example.  If you want to play a half-orc wizard, you are clearly not taking the max/min approach.  You will be a bit weaker than a human wizard or a half-orc barbarian.  But not so much that you will feel shafted, you are simply taking a slight hit in the power department to get the roleplaying experience you want.  But the ogre case is not so easy.  The difference between the power of an ogre fighter and an ogre wizard is going to be more significant.  So no single ECL will fit both.  They could publish a table with races on the side and classes across the top, then give every pair an ECL.  But that would be a silly amount of effort to go to, and would just cause 100 times more howls of disagreement.  Better to just set a fair high-end benchmark and then make it clear that lower numbers may be better on a case by case basis.  There is no way they will ever publish a book that will be able to tell me how to handle ever situation that may arise if I put an ogre PC in my game.  So the target audience for this book will be players who are willing to take responsibility themselves for making it work.  The authors of Tooth and Claw would do well to acknowlege that point, I think.</blockquote>

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