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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MythandLore" data-source="post: 71700" data-attributes="member: 180">You are correct, even though you did not take into account a few things, like the fact he can't use a horse, would have a hard time fitting into small places, sticks out in a city, race is considered evil by most races, he's stupider then stupid, races like dwarves have bonuses to fight him, etc, etc.If you use most point by systems (start 8 in a stat) he has 4 int.That's somethin' bad.Sure he's a tank that can do a lot of damage, but I think most of us have seen the smackdowns made with charging mounts, rogues etc.His starting HD are smaller then a fighter's too.If you made him +8 ECL he really really loses out.Give the normal race a +3 extra level advantage, the ogre loses out big.Botton line:+5 is good, could push to +6 if they had to, +8 is way off.You argument is off.Ogre, CR2 , ECL+5 (DMG)If you were to compare the two it would be:Tarrasque CR20, ECL +50.(and +50 ECL sounds a lot closer to right, over the +80 in the Dragon Mag.)They also regen, which to me is one of their coolest abilities.</blockquote>