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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mal Malenkirk" data-source="post: 73705" data-attributes="member: 834">Well, no.  Perhaps I should, but to tell them what?  "Congratulation guys, the ECL of the ogre seem to be right on the money!"  It might make them feel good, but I have nothing new to tell them.But let me give you more food for thought; Troll as ECL 11.Those who have Lord of the Iron Fortress can take a look at the last page of the module to see the stats of Tordek as a 15th level fighter.Key stats;Atk; +27/+22/+17, Dmg 1D10+13/19-20 X3AC 32HP: 147 (15D10+60)Let's turn him into a 4th level troll fighter; (I'm guessing that Tordek 3 bonus attribute points were sank in STR).  (including enhancement bonus)STR    34DEX   19CON   28WIS   10INT     6CHA    4Using a greatsword in one hand instead of a dwarven axe Atk; +24/+19 (8 BAB, -1 size, +4 enchanted sword, +12 STR, +1 Wfocus) Dmg; 2d6+18(Using a chain shirt instead of a fullplate)AC 35HP: Probably around 134 (6D8+4D10+90) And that troll wouldn't be using an amulet of natural armor +2 like the one Tordek is using, nor would he use a dwarven thrower (X3 warhammer that can be thrown).  He'd have some other items, things that protect him against fire and acid, for example.That troll could forget about using a shield (dropping AC to 30) and use a Huge great sword (2D8+24) if he wanted to favor offense.Tordek's advantage;  -More HP (not for long, the Troll is catching up very fast).-Much more feats and a better BAB.  This allows tordek to be a pretty good ranged fighter, an area where the Troll can compete with him.-3 attacks and a better total atk bonus.-More skills (not much an advantage when you look at Tordek's skill, at least the troll has listen&spot!)Troll advantage;He's large (reach, bonus to grapple, trip etc.)He moves faster.He's very dangerous even when unarmed (2 claws 1 bite + rend)He REGENERATES.  Only fire and acid (and instakill) can seriously hurt him.  Add some items that protect against acid and fire and consider that he has a +20 fortitude save to protect him against instakill and you'll understand that this PC is very hard to kill.Frankly, perhaps the Troll is TOO strong as ECL 11.  But I won't form a final opinion on this matter until I've playtested a Troll PC.</blockquote>

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