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Message: <blockquote data-quote="abri" data-source="post: 74053" data-attributes="member: 1080">Just a few stuff I was thinking.1)Let's compare bananas with bananas: when you play an ogre you are playing a Max out strenght character. This is not what you're doing with a human.So let's check Ogre (ECL8)Fighter3 vs orc (ECL0) Fighter 11:Orc has +6 Str  (+4 racial, +2 for levels) and 4 more feats and 4* (2+int mod skill mod).So compared to the +10 Str of the ogre:it's only +2 hit and +2 dam, compared to the orc. Actually since the ogre is large that's another +2 dam on average.With 4 feats, the orcs will have Weapon specialization, dodge, mobility, spring attack.So net gain of +2 dam for the ogre.Hit: net gain of +3 for the orc. Reach well: I prefer to have  the spring attack combos...2) Ok let's not continue there: what I HATE with these ECL is that they step on the DM toes. Every campaign is different, and the use and power of monster character depends a LOT on the campaign. Fixed ECL is not a good idea: the availibility of large sized equipment, the reaction of NPC to the monsters, are all factor that would affect the ECL and that a m official bookm cannot take in to account. I'd really rather like a ECL range with explanation on their ECL number and how DM could fix the ECL in their campaign.3)Sorry if I wasn't clear before and I want to apologize: Gorgohr seems a wonderfull character to play but IMC and in the campaigns I play in he won't survive: Every character is supposed to help in every part of the scenario. If a character is not helpfull in  the investigation, then during combat he's going to get no help from the team and die... That's not really how I like to play but that's how it is where I am.4) We have 200 more ECL to check: and we are still to the ogre ECL... The troll ECL on the other hand, seems about right: tried a party of 3 troll L1 barbarians and1 troll L3 druid  (equipped and created like a typical PC party)against my 8 PC  L9 and it was a bloodbath with 1 dead, 3 dying Pc and the party out of spells.</blockquote>

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