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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Axiomatic Unicorn" data-source="post: 75269" data-attributes="member: 1974">Re: Re: Apologiesa 'realistic" fanstasy campaign?  Forced into oxymorons already?And if the game allows ogres it would be absurd to assume that ogre sized weapons are not available.  Even more so in a game system where the ability of characters to obtain custom enchanted gear is built into the rules.  If you want to house rule that ogre have a hard time getting weapons, then by all means lower the ECL.  But we are talking about the WoTC standard here, not your restrictions.Why will it weaken?  Anything the human fighter can do, the ogre can also do.  It remains equalt to 3.5 times the specialization bonus, I don't hear anyoen complaining about that feat.If the +7 damage bonus was the only thing he had going I would not claim they were worth +8 ECL.  The entire package IS worth +8.One: The game is designed to fit the core classes.  If an new race exceeds the core races (especially in something as core to the game as combat) then it would be unbalanced at least, broken at worst.  Two:  If I want to play a human who is simply, a great fighter, I should have that option.  To have someone else jump in and get to play an Ogre AND be a better fighter than me would SUCK.  Any fool DM who allows that may as well place a sign on the table:  "Any player wanting to be the front line fighter, get your Ogre stats here."As to the ogre's thumb, it will only go where the player's brain leads.If you want to make life hard for the ogre or simply screw the core classes, the make the ECLs lower.  I have several times now pointed out that for DM's to house rule the ECL lower would cause no harm.  But for the ECLs to be officially to low, forcing balanced DMs to raise them, would be disruptive.  Not once has anyone provided a counter to this claim.In the end, I see your arguements as little more than saying "No it isn't", without coming close to establishing a firm arguement.  Your dispute of my points requires assumptions well outside the reasonable and your dispute with Mal seems much more centered on attacking the character he posted than establishing a valid ECL.If you post a reasoned position, I will be more than happy to consider it.</blockquote>

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