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ECL of Monsters Part III: Are Ogres ECL 8? The Adventures of Ghorgor.
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<blockquote data-quote="Axiomatic Unicorn" data-source="post: 76049" data-attributes="member: 1974"><p>Jasperak,</p><p></p><p>You seem to be assuming that it is possible to develop such a formula. I am quite certain that it is completely impossible. </p><p></p><p>Sure, you could print one. But it would fail constantly. </p><p></p><p>You want them to do something that is virtually impossible AND you want it with no errata???? Heck, they can't do that with the core races. </p><p></p><p>I disagree that a formula would get you closer. It would send you off on a wild goose chase. </p><p></p><p>The troll you mentioned is a good example. (ECL only 11 btw, not that it really changes the debate) What is Regen 5 worth? Well if you only have a few or no bonus HD, it may be worth nothing, but add in a bunch of hit points and now you heal completely after every battle. What is that worth? </p><p></p><p>Wouldn't you agree that having Fire Resistance 20 and a Troll style regenration would be vastly more valuable than the sum of the two individually?</p><p></p><p>As to a Troll with one level in a party, that is always going to be the weakest point. The same goes for an ogre in a L9 party. As level go up, the lost hit points and BAB become less of a significant factor. Would a troll Fighter 6 fit in a L17 party? maybe. Would a troll F1 really fit in a party below L10? I doubt it. I would consider it difficult to play a FR deep gnome in a level 4 party. That does not make +3 ECL to low, it just means deep gnomes are not ideal choices until you get a little higher in level.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But with the troll:</p><p>I use my 30 STR and Large size to grapple the enemy fighter and leap off the cliff. We both fall for 70 points of damage. Of course mine is all subdual and will heal in 2 minutes. Or I just hold him down and let the party slaughter him, who cares if they hit me a couple times.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Axiomatic Unicorn, post: 76049, member: 1974"] Jasperak, You seem to be assuming that it is possible to develop such a formula. I am quite certain that it is completely impossible. Sure, you could print one. But it would fail constantly. You want them to do something that is virtually impossible AND you want it with no errata???? Heck, they can't do that with the core races. I disagree that a formula would get you closer. It would send you off on a wild goose chase. The troll you mentioned is a good example. (ECL only 11 btw, not that it really changes the debate) What is Regen 5 worth? Well if you only have a few or no bonus HD, it may be worth nothing, but add in a bunch of hit points and now you heal completely after every battle. What is that worth? Wouldn't you agree that having Fire Resistance 20 and a Troll style regenration would be vastly more valuable than the sum of the two individually? As to a Troll with one level in a party, that is always going to be the weakest point. The same goes for an ogre in a L9 party. As level go up, the lost hit points and BAB become less of a significant factor. Would a troll Fighter 6 fit in a L17 party? maybe. Would a troll F1 really fit in a party below L10? I doubt it. I would consider it difficult to play a FR deep gnome in a level 4 party. That does not make +3 ECL to low, it just means deep gnomes are not ideal choices until you get a little higher in level. But with the troll: I use my 30 STR and Large size to grapple the enemy fighter and leap off the cliff. We both fall for 70 points of damage. Of course mine is all subdual and will heal in 2 minutes. Or I just hold him down and let the party slaughter him, who cares if they hit me a couple times. [/QUOTE]
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