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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Axiomatic Unicorn" data-source="post: 78084" data-attributes="member: 1974">Again with the roleplaying balances combat theory.....The ogre should not exceed the core race in combat.  period.If you as a player don't want to accept the mental attributes, don't play an ogre.  If you do want to accept the mental attributes as part of the concept, great, but don't expect combat bonuses for them.I'm not sure how putting false words in my mouth, that do not reflect anythign I said, changes the correct ECL of an ogre.If this statment were correct, you would have no complaint.But you are completely missing the point.A human F9 is a better fighter than an ogre F1.  As it should be.Pointing out that the ogre has more inherent combat advantages does nothing at all to advance the discussion.  The true question is, what amount of inherent race abilities PLUS class abilties for the ogre is fair for the core races.You have stated that several times.You have yet to supported it.  The few attempts you have made I have responded to.Again you fail to understand.  I never said anything to imply that the ogre would be smart.  Basically you have established two options:A)  outside of combat the ogre has his thumb in his butt    orB) the player unfairly plays the ogre as a super-geniusCall me silly, but I think there is some middle ground available.There would be a vast variety of ways a low INT ogre could be involved in non-combat situations.  But it will depend on the player's brain to establish fun ways to be involved while staying in character.If you can't think of anything beyond sticking your thumb in your butt, perhaps you should not play an ogre. Nope.  Your inadequate list is certainly not worth 8 ecl.An ogre PC however, is.</blockquote>

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