ECL question for weretiger as PC

[Gilwen]

A recent character death has lead a player of mine to want to run a weretiger. I am a little stumped on what ECL to assign it. The HD entry for the weretiger is 1d8+1 plus 6d8+18 (50 hp). I am thinking that this means the weretiger is a 7 HD creature and with a LA of +3 would make the ECL for a weretiger an 10. Is this correct?

Thanks,

Gil

 

[Len]

Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a lycanthrope’s character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base animal has.

So the ECL of a weretiger PC is (level) + 3 + 6.

As for the weird HD formula:

Hit Dice: and Hit Points: Same as the base creature plus those of the base animal. To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the lycanthrope has in each form.

So "1d8+1 plus 6d8+18 (50 hp)" comes from 1 HD for human and 6 HD for tiger.

 

[The Souljourner]

Yeah, the rule is that for one hitdie monsters, class levels replace the racial hitdie. Lycanthropes are a weird edge case.. you still replace the base hitdie with class levels (if any), but then you add more racial hitdice too.

BTW, Lycanthropes are awesome. I played a Dwarven Werebear barbarian for a couple sessions... it was great. Lycanthropes are one of the few level adjustment 3 or more creatures I would consider playing. They seem pretty well balanced against their straight human counterparts, despite what it may seem like at first blush. I did a damage comparison with my werebear versus what he would do if he were just a straight barbarian, and it was remarkably close. You lose out on BAB, skillpoints, class benefits, and instead get it replaced with big bonuses to stats in the Hybrid form.

The important thing to remember is that you only get the con bonus from the animal form to your animal hitdice. They actually screwed that up in the SRD for the wereboar. Everywhere else it's right, though.

-The Souljourner

 

[Gilwen]

thanks! looks like i was on the right track. I do have one more question.
Does the CON increase in Hybrid and Animal form give the character extra hitpoints albeit temporarily? The SRD suggests that it doesn't but that doesn't seem to flow with other CON increases that characters recieve.

Thanks,

Gil

 

[Stormrunner]

Nope. Per the MM, a lycanthrope receives Con bonuses to the animal hit dice for the animal-form Con, and all other hit dice for the non-animal-form Con. "For example, a human commoner with a Constitution score of 11 as a human and a Constitution score of 15 as a wolf has 1d4 plus 2d8+4 hit points." Makes things a little simpler if the PC isn't constantly changing HP.

Note also that "extra hit points" is strictly defined. "Extra hit points" can be gained from several sources (the Aid spell, vampiric weapons, bardic Inspire Greatness), but Con increases raise your "base" HP and are not considered "extra". The big difference is "extra" HP are lost "first", whereas increases to "base" HP are effectively lost last.
Example: Bob the fighter is 10th level and has 100 HP. He drinks a potion of Bear's Endurance, raising his Con modifier by +2. His "base" HP are now 120. Then the party cleric casts Aid on him, giving him 15 "extra" HP for a total of 135. Bob wades into combat and takes 45 damage total: the first 15 are applied to his "extra" HP, the other 30 to his "base". His current HP total is now 90. A little while later the Aid wears off: Bob's HP are still 90 (120 - 30). Some time later the Bear's Endurance wears off: Bob's HP are now 70 (100 - 30). If Bob had taken 110 damage in that combat, he'd better get some healing or he'll die when the Con increase wears off.

 

[glass]

Note also that "extra hit points" is strictly defined. "Extra hit points" can be gained from several sources (the Aid spell, vampiric weapons, bardic Inspire Greatness), but Con increases raise your "base" HP and are not considered "extra".

I think the term is 'temporary hit points' rather than 'extra hit points'. Other than that, excellent explanation!


glass.

 

[Snowy]

isn't it odd, I've read the were creature rules loads of times I've statted up a few were creature PCs (never got a chance to play one yet though), I even used were rats as my campaign BBEGs (3 brothers, one rogue sorceror coward, one rogue ranger trap master, one rogue rogue combat fiend) and I've never noticed the different-bonus-to-hit-points-from-CON animal and class HD difference before, it makes it so much simpler!!

 

[Gilwen]

Thanks for all the help!

Gil

 

[Goddess FallenAngel]

Looks like WOTC says weretigers are ECL 9.

(Scroll down past the Lich info) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a