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<blockquote data-quote="Khisanth the Ancient" data-source="post: 5888992" data-attributes="member: 11368"><p>Why are Morgoth, Sauron, etc. listed as so high-powered? Why not treat the Ainur as a standard pantheon (with Melkor and Manwe as Greater Powers/Deities, and everybody else figured down from there)?</p><p></p><p>I wouldn't have thought the gap between a Balrog and Sauron was nearly so vast - I can see Sauron (w/o Ring) as having twice the average Balrog's hit dice (with Gothmog, lord of Balrogs, being about halfway between) - but not much more. Even with Ring I don't think he should be above Lesser Deity. In the First Age Sauron is not <em>that</em> overwhelming or globally dominant; and I don't think the First Age's heroes were ECL 100+ characters. If he were really Sidereal-level, IMO his mere presence in the mortal world would have massive effects, and it doesn't.</p><p></p><p>Sauron is overwhelmingly powerful, even without Ring, in the late Third Age - but that's an age of decline, the Free Peoples are really not numerous at all, and I doubt they include many really high level characters. Personally, I'd figure there to be hardly any epic characters left in Middle-Earth proper in the era of LotR - probably only Sauron, Galadriel, the Balrog, the Istari 'unveiled' (in their 'normal' mode they wouldn't be really all that powerful, IMO), probably Tom Bombadil, possibly Cirdan, possibly the Witch-King. I don't think Aragorn is (maybe low teens...), and I'd put most of the Nazgul in the low-teens range too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khisanth the Ancient, post: 5888992, member: 11368"] Why are Morgoth, Sauron, etc. listed as so high-powered? Why not treat the Ainur as a standard pantheon (with Melkor and Manwe as Greater Powers/Deities, and everybody else figured down from there)? I wouldn't have thought the gap between a Balrog and Sauron was nearly so vast - I can see Sauron (w/o Ring) as having twice the average Balrog's hit dice (with Gothmog, lord of Balrogs, being about halfway between) - but not much more. Even with Ring I don't think he should be above Lesser Deity. In the First Age Sauron is not [I]that[/I] overwhelming or globally dominant; and I don't think the First Age's heroes were ECL 100+ characters. If he were really Sidereal-level, IMO his mere presence in the mortal world would have massive effects, and it doesn't. Sauron is overwhelmingly powerful, even without Ring, in the late Third Age - but that's an age of decline, the Free Peoples are really not numerous at all, and I doubt they include many really high level characters. Personally, I'd figure there to be hardly any epic characters left in Middle-Earth proper in the era of LotR - probably only Sauron, Galadriel, the Balrog, the Istari 'unveiled' (in their 'normal' mode they wouldn't be really all that powerful, IMO), probably Tom Bombadil, possibly Cirdan, possibly the Witch-King. I don't think Aragorn is (maybe low teens...), and I'd put most of the Nazgul in the low-teens range too. [/QUOTE]
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