ECL Questions

historian

First Post
Hey U_K :)

I hope everything is going well in your world.

It's been quite awhile since my last post but was hoping to get back in the loop. Specifically I have been toying with the MERP system, which is more less a slightly boiled down version of Rolemaster. One great aspect of the MERP system is easily applicable guidelines for conversions to and from other game systems.

I am hoping that you will indulge my curiosity as to the ECL (in 1st Ed. AD&D terms) of the following beings (also, commentary on signature powers would of course be appreciated):


The Living Tribunal

IG Thanos

Anti-Monitor

The Hunger

The Sentry


Any guidance would be much appreciated!
 

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historian said:

Howdy historian matey! :)

I hope everything is going well in your world.

Everything except the time taken to finish a book is going great at the moment. :eek:

It's been quite awhile since my last post but was hoping to get back in the loop.

Hope you have been keeping well yourself?

Specifically I have been toying with the MERP system, which is more less a slightly boiled down version of Rolemaster. One great aspect of the MERP system is easily applicable guidelines for conversions to and from other game systems.

Cool. Never really seen MERP (although I know what it is).

I am hoping that you will indulge my curiosity as to the ECL (in 1st Ed. AD&D terms) of the following beings (also, commentary on signature powers would of course be appreciated):

I'll try my best.

The Living Tribunal

High Lord...40,000 Hit Points in AD&D.

Most powerful observed attack - creating a supernova (about 4000 damage).

IG Thanos

Demiurge (Stage 3)...6400 Hit Points in AD&D

Anti-Monitor

I actually bought COIE last year (to read on the holiday flight) and worked out the power of the Anti-monitor using my Punchometer system (comicbook battle calculator) for every different scene he's in. Converting that to AD&D...

Most powerful (Demiurge Stage 1)...3200 Hit Points in AD&D.
Least powerful (Greater God)...400 Hit Points in AD&D.

The Hunger

Very difficult to calculate. The Hunger is probably something similar to an Umbral. The Hunger absorbed all attacks and they only managed to defeat it by unleashing an attack that overloaded its current form.

My guesstimate is that you would need to deal more than its maximum hit points in damage to kill it. Otherwise the attack deals no damage. The absorption process needs a bit more thought though. It would need to have an upper and lower threshold...off the top of my head...

Add damage from attacks to the monster's permanent hp total unless the damage is less than 25% of its current total.

e.g. So, if it had 100 hit points and you dealt 50 damage from one attack, then you add 50 hit points. But you wouldn't add any hp from attacks dealing 25% or less of the current hp.

Galactus would have 1200 hit points.

The attack of the planetary collision (+nukes) must have been in and around the 1200 hp mark (since Galactus was almost killed). Therefore we know that Hunger didn't have more than 1200 hp using the above method.

The Sentry

Lesser God...approx. 200 Hit Points in AD&D

NB. The comic book Thor would only be a Demigod in AD&D terms (where Odin is still a Greater God).

Any guidance would be much appreciated!

Hope the above helps as a start.

As a quick rule of thumb when working out damages, divide hp by 10 to get the base average...then add strength bonuses.

ie. the Living Tribunal has 40,000 hp so he could deal about 4000 damage from a single attack (on average).
 

Why does Greater God = only 400 hp?

I was just re-reading my 1E AD&D Dragonlance campaign setting book (which I hadn't looked at in years) and it lists them as quite a bit higher. Takhisis and Paladine are both 999 hp, Gilean has 980 hp (all 3 head gods have a varying number of attacks which can be as powerful as 1d10x100 damage). The lowest hp god in the book is Mishakal at 350 hp.

(And this in a setting where the mortal limit is 18th level barring unusual cases like Raistlin...)

Are Dragonlance gods just unusually super-powered? (Probably, but it seems odd.)
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
I vaguely recall that deities in 1E had some sort of upper ceiling on hit points (I can't recall if it was 300 or 400, but it was definitely one of those) and that the deities in the orange-spined Dragonlance Adventures violated that particular rule.
 

Hi there! :)

Khisanth the Ancient said:
Why does Greater God = only 400 hp?

I was just re-reading my 1E AD&D Dragonlance campaign setting book (which I hadn't looked at in years) and it lists them as quite a bit higher. Takhisis and Paladine are both 999 hp, Gilean has 980 hp (all 3 head gods have a varying number of attacks which can be as powerful as 1d10x100 damage). The lowest hp god in the book is Mishakal at 350 hp.

(And this in a setting where the mortal limit is 18th level barring unusual cases like Raistlin...)

Are Dragonlance gods just unusually super-powered? (Probably, but it seems odd.)

As Alzrius mentioned, those Dragonlance deity stats were a load of nonsense.

If its 1st Ed. AD&D you go by Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore.

I seem to recall that we hated Dragonlance (in our multi-campaign setting cosmology) and when [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION] released THARIZDUN the first thing he had him do was destroy Krynn and all its weirdly hit pointed deities.
 

historian

First Post
Howdy historian matey! :)


Hello again!:)


Everything except the time taken to finish a book is going great at the moment. :eek:


We all have our strengths and weaknesses.:p


Hope you have been keeping well yourself?

Things are great except for the real world keeping me from my favorite hobby.



Cool. Never really seen MERP (although I know what it is).

It's like Rolemaster lite. What most impresses me about the system is the quality of research and products as well as the fact that the designers chose to tackle stats for the Vala and Maiar.



I'll try my best.

Good enough for me.


High Lord...40,000 Hit Points in AD&D.

Most powerful observed attack - creating a supernova (about 4000 damage).

Sweet. "He's" a tough one to pin down precisely but your estimate is as good as anything I could have come up with.



Demiurge (Stage 3)...6400 Hit Points in AD&D

That's exactly where I had him.;)


I actually bought COIE last year (to read on the holiday flight) and worked out the power of the Anti-monitor using my Punchometer system (comicbook battle calculator) for every different scene he's in. Converting that to AD&D...

Most powerful (Demiurge Stage 1)...3200 Hit Points in AD&D.
Least powerful (Greater God)...400 Hit Points in AD&D.

I thought he might have been a First One but Demiurge makes more sense in light of the multiversal scope of COIE.



Very difficult to calculate. The Hunger is probably something similar to an Umbral. The Hunger absorbed all attacks and they only managed to defeat it by unleashing an attack that overloaded its current form.

My guesstimate is that you would need to deal more than its maximum hit points in damage to kill it. Otherwise the attack deals no damage. The absorption process needs a bit more thought though. It would need to have an upper and lower threshold...off the top of my head...

Add damage from attacks to the monster's permanent hp total unless the damage is less than 25% of its current total.

e.g. So, if it had 100 hit points and you dealt 50 damage from one attack, then you add 50 hit points. But you wouldn't add any hp from attacks dealing 25% or less of the current hp.

Galactus would have 1200 hit points.

The attack of the planetary collision (+nukes) must have been in and around the 1200 hp mark (since Galactus was almost killed). Therefore we know that Hunger didn't have more than 1200 hp using the above method.

Gotcha.


Lesser God...approx. 200 Hit Points in AD&D

NB. The comic book Thor would only be a Demigod in AD&D terms (where Odin is still a Greater God).

10-4



Hope the above helps as a start.

As a quick rule of thumb when working out damages, divide hp by 10 to get the base average...then add strength bonuses.

ie. the Living Tribunal has 40,000 hp so he could deal about 4000 damage from a single attack (on average).

On that note can you let me know the following estimates of the damage it would require to destroy:

A Galaxy
A Universe
A Multiverse
All Multiverses.

:)
 

As Alzrius mentioned, those Dragonlance deity stats were a load of nonsense.

If its 1st Ed. AD&D you go by Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore.

Ah, ok.

Yeah, I could never figure out how Raistlin (listed as a 20th level Black Robe wizard at the time of the Legends series) could possibly have (in that 'retconned' alternate history ... or whatever) defeated Takhisis with 999 hp and those weird 'up to 1d10x100 damage' attacks (barring using some sort of save-or-die spell that works on deities and Takhisis rolling a really bad saving throw, at least).

I seem to recall that we hated Dragonlance (in our multi-campaign setting cosmology) and when [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION] released THARIZDUN the first thing he had him do was destroy Krynn and all its weirdly hit pointed deities.

LOL.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Yeah, I could never figure out how Raistlin (listed as a 20th level Black Robe wizard at the time of the Legends series) could possibly have (in that 'retconned' alternate history ... or whatever) defeated Takhisis with 999 hp and those weird 'up to 1d10x100 damage' attacks (barring using some sort of save-or-die spell that works on deities and Takhisis rolling a really bad saving throw, at least).

According to the novels, when Raistlin entered the Abyss (fun fact: it was actually the Nine Hells) to challenge Takhisis, what actually happened was that he defeated all of her servants there. At that point, with only Takhisis herself left, his plan was to retreat to the Prime Material Plane, and let Takhisis follow him there.

With her, a greater deity, on the Material Plane, the book says that would bring down "the wrath of the Heavens" on her - clearly implying direct intervention from other deities, albeit not having them enter the Material Plane themselves - and that (in an unspecified manner) Raistlin would be commanding those forces/using them to his advantage.

That also wouldn't have been the end of the battle, as at some point in the conflict Raistlin would have become a god himself and continued the fight, with Takhisis losing gradually over the next few years...oddly, this would also be the case for all of the other gods; the implication being that Raistlin had, in a chessmaster-like fashion, already figured out what they'd do and how to fight back.

Oh, and the world was destroyed in the process of all this, which was worse than it sounds for the deified Raistlin, since 1) Evil gods can't create anything, only corrupt the creation of good races (which seems silly, and I think is refuted in Dragonlance anyway, what with the Irda ogres and all), and 2) the authors kept refusing to acknowledge that Krynn existed in the wider D&D multiverse, so there were other worlds and planes anyway.
 

Howdy historian mate! :)

historian said:
On that note can you let me know the following estimates of the damage it would require to destroy:

A Galaxy
A Universe
A Multiverse
All Multiverses.

:)

I am sure I have already worked this out somewhere (but for the life of me I can't recall where or the results).

Off the top of my head...

A Planet...1000 ish
A Star/Solar System...2000
A "Space Sector"...4000
A Galaxy...8,000
A Super-cluster...16,000
A Universe...32,000
A Multiverse...64,000
All Multiverses...128,000
 


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