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<blockquote data-quote="Belzamus" data-source="post: 5892062" data-attributes="member: 61612"><p>Still digging through the Silm for quotes, but had another thought on the issue.</p><p></p><p>I think we almost have to accept that the Gandalf who battled Durin's Bane was in many respects equal in "stature" to Olorin the Maia and not constrained by the Istari limitations, as... well, he fought on even terms with a Maia. Glamdring was certainly a factor, having been used to kill Balrogs before, but even so, the only alternative is that the Balrog was either weakened after millennia (no evidence for this that I can think of) or that Balrogs are significantly weaker than standard Maia.</p><p></p><p>As, let us recall and I believe as you alluded to Alzrius, Olorin was of the court of Lorien and a Maia of Wisdom and Dreams (IIRC) not a warrior. So, the contention that Durin's Bane was bested by such an entity whilst constrained into human form seems suspect to me, at best. </p><p></p><p>Also, again IIRC, "Balrog" literally means "Spirit of Might" and they were the angry, warrior-type Maiar whom Melkor seduced to his service. As we see, Sauron did not become a Balrog despite being a fellow Maia, though we'll never know if this was by choice or by his nature as a Maia of skill and craftsmanship.</p><p></p><p>Last point, I don't believe Tolkien ever specifies if the Balrogs' "100% invested" nature in their physical forms grants them greater power than other Maia who can, for lack of a better term, "respawn" if physically slain. </p><p></p><p>P.S. one other point. Tolkien changed his idea about Balrogs late in his life. In the original Siege of Gondolin, there were hundreds, and I could very easily see those Balrogs as 8th level monsters. However, he later amended it so that there were only 7 Balrogs total and made them corrupted Maia, which is, I'm almost positive, the version that made it into LotR, but I could be wrong.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Belzamus, post: 5892062, member: 61612"] Still digging through the Silm for quotes, but had another thought on the issue. I think we almost have to accept that the Gandalf who battled Durin's Bane was in many respects equal in "stature" to Olorin the Maia and not constrained by the Istari limitations, as... well, he fought on even terms with a Maia. Glamdring was certainly a factor, having been used to kill Balrogs before, but even so, the only alternative is that the Balrog was either weakened after millennia (no evidence for this that I can think of) or that Balrogs are significantly weaker than standard Maia. As, let us recall and I believe as you alluded to Alzrius, Olorin was of the court of Lorien and a Maia of Wisdom and Dreams (IIRC) not a warrior. So, the contention that Durin's Bane was bested by such an entity whilst constrained into human form seems suspect to me, at best. Also, again IIRC, "Balrog" literally means "Spirit of Might" and they were the angry, warrior-type Maiar whom Melkor seduced to his service. As we see, Sauron did not become a Balrog despite being a fellow Maia, though we'll never know if this was by choice or by his nature as a Maia of skill and craftsmanship. Last point, I don't believe Tolkien ever specifies if the Balrogs' "100% invested" nature in their physical forms grants them greater power than other Maia who can, for lack of a better term, "respawn" if physically slain. P.S. one other point. Tolkien changed his idea about Balrogs late in his life. In the original Siege of Gondolin, there were hundreds, and I could very easily see those Balrogs as 8th level monsters. However, he later amended it so that there were only 7 Balrogs total and made them corrupted Maia, which is, I'm almost positive, the version that made it into LotR, but I could be wrong. [/QUOTE]
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