fireinthedust
Explorer
Where do we see this currency?
In Voyager they started using rations for the replicator, and an arboritum for growing food (via Nelix, etc.).
In DS9 we see Latinum introduced.
Elsewhere... I just don't see money show up.
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Economic game changers: Replicators
- Thread starter fireinthedust
- Start date
Where do we see this currency?
In Voyager they started using rations for the replicator, and an arboritum for growing food (via Nelix, etc.).
In DS9 we see Latinum introduced.
Elsewhere... I just don't see money show up.
If you were to scour the countless hours of ST, you'd find references to "costs", "expensive" restaurants when characters are on shore leave, bartenders running tabs, and, as I recall, more than one miscreant being told he would have to compensate those they harmed for their losses.
But you never see physical money.
Then, of course, there is this entry at Memory Alpha:
Money - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
The lesson it gives us: even though Gene felt there was unequivocally "No Money" in the Federation, it wasn't handled consistently over the years by the various writers of Next Gen, DS9, the movies, etc.
But you never see physical money.
Then, of course, there is this entry at Memory Alpha:
Money - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
The lesson it gives us: even though Gene felt there was unequivocally "No Money" in the Federation, it wasn't handled consistently over the years by the various writers of Next Gen, DS9, the movies, etc.
Personally I love Star Trek but I think that the Replicators and Transporters were the worst things for the writers and they are extremely annoying for a GM. That was why they kept on having them break during TOS Star Trek.
If I had a Transporter and Replicator system on a Starship I would have one in each section scanning the next section. If that next section was damaged or destroyed then they would recreate all the things in that section on the fly. The people would just have a momentary hickup in their memory but keep going. The ship would heal itself instantly.
It's tied to an antimatter reactor. At warp it is using alot of power but at STL it wouldn't using very much at all. So it can dedicate all that power generation to replicating whole sections of the ship.
Need more weapons? Replicate metal objects with a high inertia state pointed at the enemy.
Need more troops? Keep repeating the last action of the transporter. They have made duplicates by accident so they can do it on purpose.
Need a doctor? Just upload your mind into a computer, reset your body to a save point, and download again. You could even have the transporter edit you each time you travel to remove any anomalies. You could even improve yourself on the fly with extra genes and cyberware at the touch of a few buttons.
Why not explore the galaxy like V'ger and transport everything you find into data? Bad guys are here? Let's save them to the computer and talk to them later.
To answer an earlier question, they did have transporters as elevators in Stargate Atlantis though why they didn't have replicators if they had transporters never made sense to me.
Having tried to run Star Trek it can be hard if you have a smart player that is devious. Of course most dumb players don't want to play Star Trek in the first place. The best advice I can give you is to do what I am working on and create an Alternate Star Trek tech level where they don't have Transporters or replicators. They have some sort of wormhole technology where they step through from place to place (not like stargate because that is still turning them into energy and back). Otherwise they need resources. It makes the setting make a whole lot more sense.
If I had a Transporter and Replicator system on a Starship I would have one in each section scanning the next section. If that next section was damaged or destroyed then they would recreate all the things in that section on the fly. The people would just have a momentary hickup in their memory but keep going. The ship would heal itself instantly.
It's tied to an antimatter reactor. At warp it is using alot of power but at STL it wouldn't using very much at all. So it can dedicate all that power generation to replicating whole sections of the ship.
Need more weapons? Replicate metal objects with a high inertia state pointed at the enemy.
Need more troops? Keep repeating the last action of the transporter. They have made duplicates by accident so they can do it on purpose.
Need a doctor? Just upload your mind into a computer, reset your body to a save point, and download again. You could even have the transporter edit you each time you travel to remove any anomalies. You could even improve yourself on the fly with extra genes and cyberware at the touch of a few buttons.
Why not explore the galaxy like V'ger and transport everything you find into data? Bad guys are here? Let's save them to the computer and talk to them later.
To answer an earlier question, they did have transporters as elevators in Stargate Atlantis though why they didn't have replicators if they had transporters never made sense to me.
Having tried to run Star Trek it can be hard if you have a smart player that is devious. Of course most dumb players don't want to play Star Trek in the first place. The best advice I can give you is to do what I am working on and create an Alternate Star Trek tech level where they don't have Transporters or replicators. They have some sort of wormhole technology where they step through from place to place (not like stargate because that is still turning them into energy and back). Otherwise they need resources. It makes the setting make a whole lot more sense.
Though the technologies may be related, there is one crucial difference: with a transporter, YOU supply all the mass and particular elements on on end required on the other. With a replicator, you have to have a ready supply of mass to convert into the desired form.
So they use water, rock, wood from the shore, etc. Apparently using those transporters on Atlantis never seemed to significantly effect their power usage. Besides they have created objects out of nothing in Stargate using replicator technology before. It was the last episode of Stargate SG1. They were using it to create unlimited air, food, water, cellos, etc. They have created objects out of nothing before in Star Trek. They were just trying to recon an explanation. They had a whole mine field of mines that were self replicating to an apparent infinite level.
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Don't replicators in the Star Trek universe still require raw materials from which to replicate their objects?
If this is so, scarcity would still be as much an issue as it ever was. Mass production, of course, becomes more of an issue (Captain Picard, himself, lamented the ease of mass-producing art objects).
If this is so, scarcity would still be as much an issue as it ever was. Mass production, of course, becomes more of an issue (Captain Picard, himself, lamented the ease of mass-producing art objects).
Actually, that may not be a requirement.
If you can convert matter to energy (and retain its pattern), and transmit that energy (with pattern) to another location and convert the pattern into matter, you have a transporter (one definition of one).
If you have energy, and can form it into a pattern, you can then convert that energy pattern into matter.
My assumption is that with sufficient tech, matter can be converted into energy, and energy can be converted into matter.
this was my other point that Umbran corrected. He's right that there ARE other ways to do a transporter other than matter conversion to energy, transmission and reconvert back.
But if you do it the ST way, you get Replicator technology by modifying that process, including storing the energy pattern,and then reading it (to copy it) rather than dumping it back out (as a transporter does).
Whereas, if my Transporter simply modifies the X,Y,Z attributes of your component quantum elements (I have no clue if that's possible, but if string theory revealed such an element AND we could manipulate the strings), it would be just like in a video game. Change your quantum particle coordinates and you appear in the new place. That methodology would NOT inherently give you a Replicator by simply modifying that process.
I think we're getting into the nerdyism of HOW the tech works, instead of the social impact of the tech.
I think the assumption is, if Transporters and Replicators existed and had a zero cost to use them. How would that change society?
Existance of such devices (with a zero cost implication) would certainly imply a perfect energy source. So coal burning, oil production would probably stop. The planet would hopefully get cleaner air.
Using a Transporter to commute to work, reveals a point unto itself. Work. It still has to get done. Namely, unless Replicators are freaking huge, they do not build houses, only materials or completed smaller parts. Somebody has to assemble them.
Replicators don't heal sick people, so doctors are still needed.
People would still probably enjoy eating out, even if the food is replicated (and it's probable that the FIRST introduction of the devices would be in stores and restaurants, not homes when it can replicate food).
So we remove paying for goods with money. We are still likely to pay for services with money. Because money is the universal transaction system for trading goods and services.
And some folks will STILL want homemade goods and services. At the very least, like in SecondLife, people make money designing new objects, which because they are digital, the cost to replicate is zero.
I think the assumption is, if Transporters and Replicators existed and had a zero cost to use them. How would that change society?
Existance of such devices (with a zero cost implication) would certainly imply a perfect energy source. So coal burning, oil production would probably stop. The planet would hopefully get cleaner air.
Using a Transporter to commute to work, reveals a point unto itself. Work. It still has to get done. Namely, unless Replicators are freaking huge, they do not build houses, only materials or completed smaller parts. Somebody has to assemble them.
Replicators don't heal sick people, so doctors are still needed.
People would still probably enjoy eating out, even if the food is replicated (and it's probable that the FIRST introduction of the devices would be in stores and restaurants, not homes when it can replicate food).
So we remove paying for goods with money. We are still likely to pay for services with money. Because money is the universal transaction system for trading goods and services.
And some folks will STILL want homemade goods and services. At the very least, like in SecondLife, people make money designing new objects, which because they are digital, the cost to replicate is zero.
Maybe Star trek has a system of basic need versus want in the payment system. For example you could go and get food for yourself all day long but if you were producing goods to be sold it would only let you make one or two. If you put in a bunch of clothes then you could get them back out as a form of storage. You could ask for a drink but not a poison.
You could ask for needs based goods from a replicator forever but not want based goods. This way you have the things that you need but you are not filling the world with extra stuff. It stops being a cornucopia machine and eliminates basic health and poverty problems. Then goods have more value if they are not needs.
I know that this is assuming that you can keep people from putting any pattern they want in there. Maybe the programming is hardwired into the system and there is no way to program it in the first place. It could be encoded into those isolinear chips.
Maybe people normally don't have a replicator in their homes. Maybe they have a community one that is monitored. Maybe starfleet personnel are trusted more with them.
You could ask for needs based goods from a replicator forever but not want based goods. This way you have the things that you need but you are not filling the world with extra stuff. It stops being a cornucopia machine and eliminates basic health and poverty problems. Then goods have more value if they are not needs.
I know that this is assuming that you can keep people from putting any pattern they want in there. Maybe the programming is hardwired into the system and there is no way to program it in the first place. It could be encoded into those isolinear chips.
Maybe people normally don't have a replicator in their homes. Maybe they have a community one that is monitored. Maybe starfleet personnel are trusted more with them.
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