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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8460507" data-attributes="member: 7032025">I completely agree, when trust is there, it works wonder, the main problem is that 3e in a way did everything it could to entitle the players to master the rules, build their own view of their character and what it could do, etc. In itself, it's not a bad goal, but they indeed forgot about rule 0 and the fact that characters should not be designed to work in a vacuum. Because that's the problem that was generated by the attitude above and the internet, people designing builds and ideas completely centered around one character, in complete isolation of other characters, the setting, and the views of the other players and in particular the DM.As a result, it had a tendency to build very high expectations about what a character could and should do, which did not always work out with the views of the others, and the DM was the only one who could step in. But he was then hampered by the complexity and imbrication of the rules, and the fact that players had access to everything meant that they also had the tools to ruleslawyer ad vitam aeternam if unchecked.I agree that with table trust and a strong DM, most things could be sorted out, but situations are not always that ideal, and some players really abused situations.That's fine, but in a sense you were lucky because that one was really a fast talk on very shaky ground for the player, but the rules were imprecise enough and often contradictory enough that good ruleslawyers could easily find cracks, especially when supported by the internet.This is why 4e created a much more closed system, with stronger core rules and much less interaction between segments of the rules. It was a step in a given direction, with a number of consequences, and some people really liked it. As for myself, I prefer the step taken in a completely different direction with 5e, which is much closer to BECMI/AD&D in principle and which simply restores the DM's authority without closing the system in terms of possibility, but to each his own.</blockquote>

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