Effects of not sleeping?

[Egres]

I was searching for rules about characters that didn't sleep for the night before.

And i would like to find rules regarding the effects of not-sleeping.

How many days can the PCs act without sleeping?

What would be the effects for them?

Do they have to make some kind of saving throw?

Ecc. ecc..

 

[andargor]

I was searching for rules about characters that didn't sleep for the night before.

And i would like to find rules regarding the effects of not-sleeping.

How many days can the PCs act without sleeping?

What would be the effects for them?

Do they have to make some kind of saving throw?

Ecc. ecc..

Nothing directly describes this, but adventuring characters can be considered "walking", and there are limits for that:

Walk: A character can walk 8 hours in a day of travel without a problem. Walking for longer than that can wear him or her out (see Forced March, below).
...
Forced March: In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating.

A character can walk for more than 8 hours in a day by making a forced march. For each hour of marching beyond 8 hours, a Constitution check (DC 10, +2 per extra hour) is required. If the check fails, the character takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from a forced march becomes fatigued. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue. It's possible for a character to march into unconsciousness by pushing himself too hard.

And here's the "fatigued" condition:

Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

Andargor

 

[Egres]

I know those rules,but following them would mean that sleepless characters could never sleep thanks to spells like Lesser Restoration.

 

[andargor]

I know those rules,but following them would mean that sleepless characters could never sleep thanks to spells like Lesser Restoration.

True, but Lesser Restoration will not allow spellcasters to recover their spells without 8 hours of rest.

Also, there is the nonlethal damage to consider, which is not covered with Lesser Restoration. Cure spells could remedy this. But again, they will get depleted, since the cleric will not be able to replenish his/her spells.

Andargor

 

[Egres]

True, but Lesser Restoration will not allow spellcasters to recover their spells without 8 hours of rest.

Also, there is the nonlethal damage to consider, which is not covered with Lesser Restoration. Cure spells could remedy this. But again, they will get depleted, since the cleric will not be able to replenish his/her spells.

Andargor

Maybe i'm missing something Andargor,but IIRC Clerics don't need the 8 hours rest period to regain daily spells.

 

[andargor]

Maybe i'm missing something Andargor,but IIRC Clerics don't need the 8 hours rest period to regain daily spells.

Ah, no, you are not missing anything. You're correct, I've been playing a wizard too long.

Time of Day: A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, just as a wizard does. However, a divine spellcaster does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular part of the day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, he must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, he must wait until the next day to prepare spells.

So, yes, the party could continue for a long time without sleep with a cleric.

If you wish to compare with the "real world" (something that I do not like to do, but in this case it may apply): I'm ex-military, and it would very often happen on 5 day exercises that we would not get any sleep whatsoever. Not just marching, but also moving equipment, setting up camp, digging in, etc. Sure, we were "fatigued" and even sometimes "staggered", but we definitely did not have magic support and we could function.

After 5 days, it would even take me a good 2 hours to fall asleep since my body seemed attuned to a zombie-like state.

Andargor

 

[AuraSeer]

Clerics don't need rest to replenish spells, they just need to wait until the appropriate time of day. So by the book, if your cleric had enough spell slots to fill up with cures and restores, you could theoretically go without sleep forever.

My own house rules for lack of sleep are a bit more harsh, and they go like this:

If you stay awake for one full night, you must make a Fort save (DC 15) or become fatigued. For each additional night, the save DC increases by +5. (Staying awake for more than 48 hours is extremely hard.) Magic can temporarily remove the fatigue, but it comes back eight hours later unless you have slept in the meantime.

After failing two nightly saves, you become exhausted. Again, magic can help, but only temporarily. Four hours after being cured, the fatigue returns; four hours after that, you're exhausted again.

Fail a third save, and the mental effects start. You take a -4 circumstance penalty on Will saves, and on any skill checks that require concentration or patience. Each round you are in combat, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1 per sleepless night) or act as if confused. In addition, you must make a Fort save (DC 15) once per hour, or fall asleep despite your intention to stay awake. Magic doesn't help with these effects unless specifically designed to remove or lessen your sleep requirement.

If you get 4 hours of sleep in a 24-hour period, you must still make the nightly save, but its DC does not increase that day. If you get 8 hours of sleep, you move to the next less-serious step of the scale, and you need not save that night (but the DC remains the same for next time). Once you have had sufficient sleep for the same number of nights that you went sleepless, or have spent one entire day resting and sleeping, the DC counter resets and you're fully back to normal.

This all is modelled on my own experiences trying to go without sleep for days at a time. (I'm a programmer, we is stupid that way. ) It's not medically precise or anything, but it's about as close as I could get within the rules.

 

[noeuphoria]

Did you at least get to grab 1 hour naps or something? The longest I've ever done was about 60 hours without sleep when I was in college and had to have finals then move out of my apartment, and towards the end I would nod off just standing up, I'd hate handling military equipment or, even worse, trying to look out for enemies, in that state.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[andargor]

Did you at least get to grab 1 hour naps or something? The longest I've ever done was about 60 hours without sleep when I was in college and had to have finals then move out of my apartment, and towards the end I would nod off just standing up, I'd hate handling military equipment or, even worse, trying to look out for enemies, in that state.

I don't know if standing in somewhat of a daze for 15 minutes at times counts as a "nap".

No, no true sleep at all. After the third day, I just felt tired, but not sleepy. Body gets used to it, somehow. And the constant "enemy attacks" kept the adrenaline pumping, and we were fully alert during those (or so we thought...)

Andargor