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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6358531" data-attributes="member: 18">Only if you say "Right guys I will never TPK you ever, here's a signed contract to that effect".Which is pretty far-fetched.Not only do you have a million failure conditions which aren't death, but you can also have deaths without TPKs, so it's even more silly business.Finally, you can just restrict TPKs to when the PCs all/largely deserve it. One PC doing something dumb doesn't fit that. I've TPK'd a number of parties who insisted on pursuing a suicidal course of action - but my experience is that "oops bad rolls" TPKs and "lol the CN dude pressed the red button"-type TPKs add nothing to the game for a lot of players (and further this has nothing to do with their moral character, and suggesting it does merely calls the suggester's own moral character into question!). [MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION] - No, the discussion was of "valuable lesson", and you're simply wrong to assert that all TPKs will provide a "valuable" lesson - many lessons will have zero value, particularly if the wrong lesson is learned, because it's not like the DM usually runs some kind of detailed "Debrief" with the PCs after a TPK (they should, if they want there to be "valuable" lessons, though!). I mean, the players may think they screwed up when the DM was actually being a jerk, bad lesson, or they may think the pre-written adventure sucked when the DM actually misread it, bad lesson, or they may think that they just got bad dice rolls when they actually did something really dumb, bad lesson etc. etc.So, no, unless you conduct detail debriefs with the players, and have a full and frank discussion of the TPK in general (including discussing adventure design and being totally transparent about what you were doing as a DM), you can't guarantee a lesson of any value whatsoever.</blockquote>

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