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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eirikrautha" data-source="post: 6359027" data-attributes="member: 6777843">I, too, have suffered many party defeats due to stupidity on our part.  Likewise, we have had TPKs because our table agreed it would be the correct outcome of a particular defeat that left us helpless.  But the mechanics (randomness) used in the game have never TPKed us, becuase it can't (outside of a one-in-a-million chance).  If you look at my first post in this thread, I am addressing a particular idea: that random rolls in 5e D&D should lead to occasional or even frequent TPKs.  That is false.  The mechanics of this game make it almost impossible to TPK.  It is occasionally likely that a party could find itself incapacitated or dropped to zero hp just by poor rolls against a foe that outmatches them.  Smart tables have reached some kind of consensus as to what they expect to happen in those cases.  But the decision to TPK them is always a DM decision.That might be one social contract that you make at your table.  Player behavior might determine monster actions.  But it's not the "right" way or the only way.  It should be determined by the expectations of the table.  It is perfectly legitimate to have players that slaughter every enemy in sight, yet get dumped by the road after getting knocked out.  It's a feature of playstyle, NOT mechanics.Equating a PC with an NPC is a bit petty, actually.  As DM, you can replace any NPC you want, at any power level or capacity, instantly.  A Player must level their character, and has only one.  It's a bit like a billionare who wrecks his Ford Escort into your Ford Escort and says, "No big deal; We both lost a car."  You have a heck of a lot more invested in your car than he does.Now, I would agree that a PC who (without the table understanding that this type of game will be played) attacks your quest-giver NPC, tries to loot the townsfolk, and works against your established style IS being a dick.  No question.  That's why the table's social contract is so important.  But PCs and the DM are different.  They have different roles in the game.  If your are unable to have fun in the role that your players expect you to function (especially at a table that is not looking for a DM in competition against them), then it's time to pass the DMing chores to another person.  If your players are on-board with your style and logic, then have fun!  The game's mechanics determine neither.</blockquote>

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