D&D 5E EK vs Battlemaster/Abjurer

[Huntsman57]

I was considering whether to go with an EK or fighter/ mage. It seems to me that most folks don't like the prospect of multi-classing. In my comparison, I don't see a big draw to the EK. I'm unimpressed with the class abilities compared to the Battle Master, and the speed at which I acquire new spells as the EK is terribly slow. Additionally, if I'm going to play this class as a front line fighter, my goal is to optimize the balance of tanking and dealing damage. In terms of tanking, the arcane spells we want are shield, the anti-elemental damage version of shield (I forget the name), mirror image, blink, and improved invisibility. The thing is, if we're in the front line, we don't really want blink or improved invisibility. Blink is terrible for tanking since in 5E you disappear so you're not soaking attacks for the party but instead telling the enemy "go attack the wizard instead!" In terms of improved invisibility, the 5E concentration mechanic is too harsh, so it's better, if possible, that a fellow teammate in the backfield casts this on you. The same goes for haste. So, in the end, I'm only looking to add 3-4 levels of wizard to what will otherwise probably be a Battlemaster.

So what am I losing?

- the EK'sabilities? Forgettable.

- a few hitpoints? Not much, and I could go abjuration wizard and use Arcane Ward to convert my shield spell castings to hitpoints which would more than make up that difference

- an attack per round by 20th level? Ok, that's a thing, but the three aforementioned spells will allow me to tank far more damage than I could deal with one extra attack each round. The impressive capacity to mitigate damage easily comes out ahead.

Why would you go EK over a Battlemaster/Abjurer? Maybe I could even go 12 levels BM, 4 levels abjurer, and 4 levels in something else! Maybe throw some vengeance paladin in there. I'm thinking 12/4/4 by 20th level. Of course one obvious downside is that my ability scores would probably have to be pretty impressive to go with all three...

 

[MindxKiller]

I was considering whether to go with an EK or fighter/ mage. It seems to me that most folks don't like the prospect of multi-classing. In my comparison, I don't see a big draw to the EK. I'm unimpressed with the class abilities compared to the Battle Master, and the speed at which I acquire new spells as the EK is terribly slow. Additionally, if I'm going to play this class as a front line fighter, my goal is to optimize the balance of tanking and dealing damage. In terms of tanking, the arcane spells we want are shield, the anti-elemental damage version of shield (I forget the name), mirror image, blink, and improved invisibility. The thing is, if we're in the front line, we don't really want blink or improved invisibility. Blink is terrible for tanking since in 5E you disappear so you're not soaking attacks for the party but instead telling the enemy "go attack the wizard instead!" In terms of improved invisibility, the 5E concentration mechanic is too harsh, so it's better, if possible, that a fellow teammate in the backfield casts this on you. The same goes for haste. So, in the end, I'm only looking to add 3-4 levels of wizard to what will otherwise probably be a Battlemaster.

So what am I losing?

- the EK'sabilities? Forgettable.

- a few hitpoints? Not much, and I could go abjuration wizard and use Arcane Ward to convert my shield spell castings to hitpoints which would more than make up that difference

- an attack per round by 20th level? Ok, that's a thing, but the three aforementioned spells will allow me to tank far more damage than I could deal with one extra attack each round. The impressive capacity to mitigate damage easily comes out ahead.

Why would you go EK over a Battlemaster/Abjurer? Maybe I could even go 11 levels BM, 3-4 levels abjurer, and 5-6 levels in something else! Maybe throw some vengeance paladin in there...

War Magic is probably the only "big" thing that you'll miss, it's really nice to use Blade Ward and attack in the same round, though this tactic falls off as you level, it's still really good when it comes online especially with the new cantrips in the sword coast adventurer's guide. Also, having great AC as well as Con save proficiency and high con makes it so you're unlikely to lose concentration often and should cast the buffs spells you want yourself, it free's up your casters to use those slots for better things instead of a party tax not to mention the fact that they are far more likely to lose concentration than you are. You can certainly go Battlemaster/Abjurer if you want but relying on your party to cast haste for you isn't always the best decision, at least in my experience.

Edit: Forgot to mention, the main drawback of your build as opposed to EK is delaying your fighter abilities by 3-4 levels for just 13 THP every time you cast shield.

 

[abirdcall]

Not all games start at 20th level.

 

[Eubani]

The best think I think can be done foe EK's is to allow the player to pick the 2 main schools and create some EK specific pells. The Greenflame blade cantrip (I think that was the name) was agood start. Maybe use the Paladin Smite spells as a template.

 

[Prism]

The thing is, if we're in the front line, we don't really want blink or improved invisibility. Blink is terrible for tanking since in 5E you disappear so you're not soaking attacks for the party but instead telling the enemy "go attack the wizard instead!"

This is exactly what can happen if you use shield or absorb elements too. Both of those use your reaction which means the monsters can flood past the front line. I am playing a fighter/mage and this is typically what happens as soon as shield goes up

 

[Weathercock]

Well, in addition to a 4th attack at level 20, you're also missing out on an extra action surge at 17, which is a huge loss to your damage output without it. The loss of additional uses of Indomitable also hurts. Additionally, Haste is crazy powerful on Eldritch Knight, both offensively by increasing your damage output with extra attacks, and defensively by giving you higher AC and movement ability without compromising your action economy.

 

[Klaus]

I was considering whether to go with an EK or fighter/ mage. It seems to me that most folks don't like the prospect of multi-classing. In my comparison, I don't see a big draw to the EK. I'm unimpressed with the class abilities compared to the Battle Master, and the speed at which I acquire new spells as the EK is terribly slow. Additionally, if I'm going to play this class as a front line fighter, my goal is to optimize the balance of tanking and dealing damage. In terms of tanking, the arcane spells we want are shield, the anti-elemental damage version of shield (I forget the name), mirror image, blink, and improved invisibility. The thing is, if we're in the front line, we don't really want blink or improved invisibility. Blink is terrible for tanking since in 5E you disappear so you're not soaking attacks for the party but instead telling the enemy "go attack the wizard instead!" In terms of improved invisibility, the 5E concentration mechanic is too harsh, so it's better, if possible, that a fellow teammate in the backfield casts this on you. The same goes for haste. So, in the end, I'm only looking to add 3-4 levels of wizard to what will otherwise probably be a Battlemaster.

So what am I losing?

- the EK'sabilities? Forgettable.

- a few hitpoints? Not much, and I could go abjuration wizard and use Arcane Ward to convert my shield spell castings to hitpoints which would more than make up that difference

- an attack per round by 20th level? Ok, that's a thing, but the three aforementioned spells will allow me to tank far more damage than I could deal with one extra attack each round. The impressive capacity to mitigate damage easily comes out ahead.

Why would you go EK over a Battlemaster/Abjurer? Maybe I could even go 12 levels BM, 4 levels abjurer, and 4 levels in something else! Maybe throw some vengeance paladin in there. I'm thinking 12/4/4 by 20th level. Of course one obvious downside is that my ability scores would probably have to be pretty impressive to go with all three...

Any reason not to go with EK/Abjurer? By level 20, you could be 12/8, meaning you'll have the spell slots of a 12th level wizard, with a good dose of class abilities from both sides.

 

[Redthistle]

The best think I think can be done foe EK's is to allow the player to pick the 2 main schools and create some EK specific pells. The Greenflame blade cantrip (I think that was the name) was agood start. Maybe use the Paladin Smite spells as a template.

I like the idea of letting the player choose the two main schools of magic, which would also provide a little more variety among EKs.

 

[Eubani]

Allowing the choice of the two schools really does open up the flavor of the class. I know many would take Abj & Trans but many will also pick a pairing that gives a certain theme or flavor eg Conj and Necro for a dark knight feel.

 

[Huntsman57]

at mindxkiller: yea, war magic seems to become much less useful after we get our 2nd attack right? If we were going full tank I could maybe see the value.

As far as someone else casting haste, I realize that you can't always rely on teammates to have your back, but most of the guys in my group have been playing together since 1989 so we're a pretty crack team.

at Klaus: yea, but do I care about those spells slots as a front line sword swinging tank? Most of the best defensive spells are low level. I maximize my first and 2nd level slots with the spells I want by 4rd level, and get the extra feat. 4 more levels of mage is just going to start impacting my hitpoints, and I'll be trading spells I don't want for impressive BM capabilities like riposte.

If there is a downside I was considering, it is that so many of my actions are reaction based (riposte, parry, shield, etc), and I am a bit concerned that I will have such a ridiculous number of reactions that they become redundant, and I can't even really use them all throughout the day unless the poo really hits the fan.

at prism: it kinda depends. RP should be a part of combat too. While there are circumstances where it makes sense to charge into your enemy's back ranks, in most cases it's kinda suicidal IRL. Of course, this is a game with certain mechanics but the enemies don't know that. Odds are that unless the enemies are highly coordinated or just plain insane, self preservation will keep them from intentionally getting themselves surrounded by the enemy.