S
Sunseeker
Guest
I would think the simpler option would just to allow a player to choose spells from the Cleric spell list instead of the Wizard one.
D&D 5E (2014) Eldritch Knight variants
- Thread starter Hereticus
- Start date
I think I see your problem. I don't find players who want no ties to anyone or anything and play an alignment that allows them to justify doing anything as a member of my party.
That being said "Paladin" is a good enough answer.
AmerginLiath
Adventurer
The alignment issue is one that I agree with others on, but that's a matter for a DM to (like with all characters) keep an eye on.
As for the idea of using a Cleric chassis instead of a Wizard chassis for the caster part of Eldritch Knight? I actually looked over that one point when pondering how one could build a Knights of Solamnia "Knight of the Sword" in 5e. I think that subbing the cleric's Abjuration and Evocation spell lists in lieu of the Wizard's aren't necessarily a problem, and the only weird level power is the teleportation one (the others are warrior-style abilities that work fine for any gish). My only recommendation is to work as DM alongside the player in choosing the spells. Especially on the evocation side, I'd say to lean against Healing spells in favor of damaging spells (both for the flavor of the class and so as to not step on the toes of other archetypes). Since the character would have a fixed spell list, you wouldn't have a daily task of watching over spell choice, just checking with him every few levels (which isn't a big trade for the okay of this type of character concept change, I think).
As for the idea of using a Cleric chassis instead of a Wizard chassis for the caster part of Eldritch Knight? I actually looked over that one point when pondering how one could build a Knights of Solamnia "Knight of the Sword" in 5e. I think that subbing the cleric's Abjuration and Evocation spell lists in lieu of the Wizard's aren't necessarily a problem, and the only weird level power is the teleportation one (the others are warrior-style abilities that work fine for any gish). My only recommendation is to work as DM alongside the player in choosing the spells. Especially on the evocation side, I'd say to lean against Healing spells in favor of damaging spells (both for the flavor of the class and so as to not step on the toes of other archetypes). Since the character would have a fixed spell list, you wouldn't have a daily task of watching over spell choice, just checking with him every few levels (which isn't a big trade for the okay of this type of character concept change, I think).
brehobit
Explorer
I wanted to do the same thing, but found the EK's powers to not mesh very well with the spells or theme. So I wrote up a full archetype.
I will note, that cleric spells are, on the whole, weaker than wizard (or EK) spells and so they should probably get something else. Plus it's fun to use the domains.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/5earchetypes/showentry.php?e=13&catid=1
I will note, that cleric spells are, on the whole, weaker than wizard (or EK) spells and so they should probably get something else. Plus it's fun to use the domains.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/5earchetypes/showentry.php?e=13&catid=1
Thanks for the suggestions, I will pass them along!
The player is just joining the game after another had to drop out, and he is new to 5e. He started as fighter 2 / cleric 3, but we will make some changes for next game.
The previous week the seven players (at level 4) had met the Feathergale Knights and were preparing to attack the manticore lair at dawn, but expected the typical nightly raid by one or two of them. Six knights and six characters manned the ballistas on the roof, and had eight hippogriffs ready for flight. They had continuous flame spells around the outside of the walls, but that gave them limited sight at night. I had a dozen manticores attack them, who fired their tail spikes from out of sight range. The party was stunned and confused, and it took two volleys before they decided to take cover, and were hit by a third volley. Two knights and a character were unconscious, and all eight hippogriffs were dead. They finally closed the top hatch, which was a very thick wooden door, and they figured they were safe inside.
At least until they heard the drawbridge open and howling sounds. A dozen gnoll wereboars (I ruled that any humanoid could be affected) rushed into the spire, while the survivors barricaded themselves in the large room on the second floor (S8), where they had the feast. One knight was a lycanthrope, and let them in. They tried to open the door and only let a few in at a time, but they all stampeded through. Fortunately the knights had silvered weapons, and after a long hard fight they were all killed. Only the head knight and Savra survived, as did the six party members. Most were out of spells, and close to zero hit points. [end of game session, we went long time-wise]
We started up last week with the new player riding his horse like mad, into the spire, chased by three manticores. As he made it in, his horse was shot out from under him, and he rolled to the stairwell door. Three characters had gone downstairs to close the drawbridge, but were too late as some manticores were inside. They helped the wounded character upstairs. As soon as Savra spotted him, she fired and hit him with an arrow. The players found out that Aiden was an ex-knight of the spire and Savra's ex-husband. Two years ago he had ran away from the order and her! The players were excited about getting a new cleric in the party, but he was at zero hit points and also out of spells. They survived the night and leveled up. This has some potential for fun...
The player is just joining the game after another had to drop out, and he is new to 5e. He started as fighter 2 / cleric 3, but we will make some changes for next game.
The previous week the seven players (at level 4) had met the Feathergale Knights and were preparing to attack the manticore lair at dawn, but expected the typical nightly raid by one or two of them. Six knights and six characters manned the ballistas on the roof, and had eight hippogriffs ready for flight. They had continuous flame spells around the outside of the walls, but that gave them limited sight at night. I had a dozen manticores attack them, who fired their tail spikes from out of sight range. The party was stunned and confused, and it took two volleys before they decided to take cover, and were hit by a third volley. Two knights and a character were unconscious, and all eight hippogriffs were dead. They finally closed the top hatch, which was a very thick wooden door, and they figured they were safe inside.
At least until they heard the drawbridge open and howling sounds. A dozen gnoll wereboars (I ruled that any humanoid could be affected) rushed into the spire, while the survivors barricaded themselves in the large room on the second floor (S8), where they had the feast. One knight was a lycanthrope, and let them in. They tried to open the door and only let a few in at a time, but they all stampeded through. Fortunately the knights had silvered weapons, and after a long hard fight they were all killed. Only the head knight and Savra survived, as did the six party members. Most were out of spells, and close to zero hit points. [end of game session, we went long time-wise]
We started up last week with the new player riding his horse like mad, into the spire, chased by three manticores. As he made it in, his horse was shot out from under him, and he rolled to the stairwell door. Three characters had gone downstairs to close the drawbridge, but were too late as some manticores were inside. They helped the wounded character upstairs. As soon as Savra spotted him, she fired and hit him with an arrow. The players found out that Aiden was an ex-knight of the spire and Savra's ex-husband. Two years ago he had ran away from the order and her! The players were excited about getting a new cleric in the party, but he was at zero hit points and also out of spells. They survived the night and leveled up. This has some potential for fun...
Yeah, that's an issue. He's actively made a weak character there. He's at the level 5 milestone, but without any of the strong effects from actually being level 5, or even level 4. The game is designed around the assumption that, around level 5, then 11 and 17, there will be significant bumps in power. If you're multi-classing, then holding out on those bumps really hurts. MCing is actually tricky, since its easy to make a character and shoot yourself in the foot - there's a reason its an advanced optional thing. I tend to forbid it with new players until they get the system down.
Let me ask you this. Which kind of cleric is he going for? What's the character concept? Bonds/Flaws/Ideals/etc? Give us a bit more information, and we'll probably have a better idea of how to model it. For all we know, the main issue could actually just be that he's got a bad idea of how, when, and what spells to use. When we say "knight," my knee jerk reaction is always paladin. But it could be wrong.
Another thing to keep in mind is that, despite the name, the Paladin class is not the same as the previous edition paladins - the LG evil slayer is the Oath of Devotion, while the other three subclasses are completely different classes in previous editions, none of which were LG-ish. So, we might have a bit of a problem with confusing older editions with modern. If we're looking at a loner who's looking to avenge his slain family, then the Vengence Oath would fit perfectly, for instance. Alternatively, he might be just as happy with the Ranger for a mix of spells and martial ability.
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
Well, he does get 2d8 Sacred Flame now. That's not nothing.
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