Eldritch Knights and prepared spellcasters

[pawsplay]

So, Eldritch Knight says

At the indicated levels, an eldritch knight gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming an eldritch knight, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

That basically says they do NOT gain spells known if they are a prepared caster. If so, it's kind of inconvenient for wizards. They have a Spellbook ability that does not improve with EK. It's worse for witches; I was toying with the idea of a fighter/witch/edlritch knight, which is just a really cool concept, and I noticed that a strict interpretation looks like it might cause them to stop gaining patron spells. So in addition to the problem wizards may have (having to purchase/scrounge/steal new spells), a witch EK's spell list is actually slightly smaller.

EDIT: Stray "not" deleted.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.

Looks to me like he gets spells known here. If anything, you could argue only spontaneous casters got additional spells known by leveling.

 

[pawsplay]

That's pretty much what that "if" seems to be saying. Note also that the wizard's spellbook and the witch's familiar are listed separately from their spellcasting as class abilities.

 

[Forged Fury]

Cast Dispel Confusion

That basically says they do NOT gain spells known if they are not a prepared caster.

I think the poster above was looking at this statement when answering your question. They (and I) think you meant to say: "That basically says the do NOT gain spells known if they are a prepared caster" rather than "not a prepared caster."

As far as how to answer it, it seems a bit unfair to prepared casters, but they can always add spells through scroll use, whereas spontaneous casters don't really have that option.

 

[pawsplay]

Ah, right. Sorry.

Well, under the assumption that it is unfair to prepared casters, it seems like either spells/day or the spellbook/familiar entries need to be errata'd.

 

[Forged Fury]

Well, under the assumption that it is unfair to prepared casters, it seems like either spells/day or the spellbook/familiar entries need to be errata'd.

Well, to me, it doesn't seem that unfair to the prepared casters. Both wizards and witches can use scrolls to add spells to their spellbooks/familiars, EK just wouldn't allow them to add the two free ones at each spell level that a normal level of wizard/witch would gain. But yes, a witch does get kind of screwed out of the bonus patron spells, as far as I can tell.

To me, it would be really unfair if the EK didn't increase spells known for spontaneous casters. Imagine being a X/Sorcerer/EK who had the CL to cast 6th levels spells but couldn't do so because their spells known never advanced to that point and there really isn't a reliable/cheap way to increase their spells known.

 

[Philosopher]

Strictly speaking, gaining spells known if one is a spontaneous caster says nothing about prepared casters. You're interpreting it as if it said only if instead of just if.

In any case, the wording is poor. This issue came up about prestige classes in general in 3.5. I've always given wizards their two spells per level.

 

[pawsplay]

Strictly speaking, gaining spells known if one is a spontaneous caster says nothing about prepared casters. You're interpreting it as if it said only if instead of just if.

That's pretty much what it says:

He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained,

 

[Philosopher]

That's pretty much what it says:

He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained,

The if in question is making the statement conditional on spontaneous casters, not the benefits of gaining a spellcasting level. As you quoted, "spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster)".

 

[pawsplay]

The if in question is making the statement conditional on spontaneous casters, not the benefits of gaining a spellcasting level. As you quoted, "spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster)".

As a syllogism, it goes something like this:
1. PCs get only what is listed under their class when they level.
2. Spells known for prepared casters is not listed as something an Eldritch Knight gets when they level.
3. Therefore... they don't get it.

Sorcerers get spells known because it is specifically called out as something spontaneous casters get. Wizards aren't spontaneous casters, so it's not called out for them. We are looking for an including condition, and I don't see one. Yes, it's conditional on sorcerers. On being a sorcerer. If you're not a spontaneous caster, you can pretend that clause doesn't exist.