"Elements of Magic" and other systems

[Kannik]

Just a message of support

Just a quick message to say 'yay!' to the revisions -- EoM is a great concept, one of the best PDFs (and supplements both e and print) I've ever bought, and even though I am not running a game right now I liked it enough to create a supplementary PDF with a few additional lists/etc (albeit I have since noticed a need to tweak it a bit ), and I'm excited that you're revising it AND doing more work/an additional supplement. So. yeah. } I completely abandonned a similar project when EoM came out, EoM did all and more, and was more slick too...

Can't wait for the revised!

Kannik

 

[r-kelleg]

the revision sounds good and bad

First of all, I'm happy to see that the time will be an element (it was my idea )

my main question is about spell list.
I always found some spelllists too much "all-purpose" (i.e. infuse creature with[element])
with the reduction of the spellists, shalln't we get even more of those all-purpose list ?

I'm also happy to read that you reduce the power of the evoke [e] lists.

I run a camping with EOM since it came out but I'm currently thinking about coming back to the old magic system, because of those overpowered lists... So I'm quite eager to read the 3.5

 

[Verequus]

Before I write another email :

Will be Heighten Spell implicitly included? The Cursecraft Spell list, for example, would be crippled, if one can't cast Blindness/Deafness with an higher DC.

Am I right, that the spell lists include now 20 levels (with adapted spell costs)? This seems to foreshadow good news regarding the combining elements - if you use basically my mentioned method... I can't await my copy! I really need a time machine...

 

[Terath Ninir]

Before I write another email

Ahem. I'm notorious for my slow email replies. I haven't emailed my best friend back in three weeks, much less gotten to all of my other email...

Heighten spell: I'm not sure. It may be made unnecessary by the way we're constructing the rules. The Cursecraft list will not exist as such. You will still be able to do everything in the list, but you won't have to learn a specific curse list.

Spells will range from cantrip up to 20 MP. So, yes, it will be much easier to combine spell effects. That will be one of the major improvements to make it easier to simulate Core spells, as well as design new spells to fit your character.

Spell list being all-powerful: Well, yes and no. It will be much easier to explain once we have it done. Each spell list will cover more ground, but when you cast a spell, it will be limited in effect so that it isn't overpowering. A spell list will give you access to choices for constructing a spell: damage, special effects like blindness, range, area of effect, multiple targets, duration, etc. So, while Infuse will cover a number of different effects, it won't do everything all at once. So you'll have more choices, but individual spells won't overpower those from the Core rules.

I can't wait for the revised version, either. Working while I take care of my kids is even harder than I thought, but Ranger and I will get this to y'all asap.

 

[dhenley]

This seems to the best place for my question.I have read through this thread, and the EoM FAQ but haven't found an answer to this yet.

My group is about to start a new campaign, and we are using EoM as an alternate casting system. I was interested in playing a summoner for my caster, but in looking through the lists the Summon [Creature] spell list seems conspicuously absent. Up above, RangerWickett talks about one of his testers using Create Animal, but I have to assume that is an addition in the errata.

We are making characters on Wednesday, and the campaign will be starting this weekend. We have been playing together as a group for a little over a dozen years, so we can probably work past this issue, but I was hoping that EN would have suggestions on a way to Scotch Tape that spell list in.

Can you provide a rough framework of how to make a Summon [Creature] or Create [Creature] list? Use the HD from other lists makes sense, but I am wondering if there needs to be other limitations or bonuses as I do not know how that would balance compared to the Core Rules Summon Monster line.

Thanks for the time,

D

 

[RangerWickett]

Heh, I've been working on the revisions for so long now that I've started to forget how the original version worked. The original EoM was set up so that any creature you summoned would either be an outsider or an elemental. So you could get celestial badgers, or arrowhawks, or any other outsider or elemental creature.

But you could just as easily have a summon creature list to let you summon non-alignment non-elemental creatures. I don't see why there should be any difference, really. The lists ought to be able to work the same way without any unbalance. Of course, we're fixing things now, so things will likely change soon, but this Scotch Tape fix oughta hold you for a while.

 

[TwoSix]

A question and a comment:

Question: Will there still be spell lists outside the big 10(11) effects that RangerWickett listed above? Or are all the miscellaneous spell lists being subsumed?

Comment about metamagic: Maximize Spell is kind of important, since there are times when you want to make sure you do a certain amount of damage, and just increasing the spell level doesn't give you that kind of control. Why not a feat that allows you to do maximum damage for double the cost of the spell? Doubling makes more sense than increasing by a set point amount ( a la PsiHB feats).

 

[RangerWickett]

We've got it down so that pretty much anything can be made from the 10 (11) lists. Those few things that don't fit are covered by skills, namely Scrying to locate things, Divination to see the future, and Dispel Magic to . . . peel bananas. Those effects are pretty important and broad, so they don't fit into the whole 'elemental' aspect of the rules. If you want to be a master fire mage, you learn lots of fire spell lists. If you want to be a master counterspeller, you spend lots of skill ranks on Dispel Magic.

Regarding maximize spell, I mean, it'd be easy enough to duplicate, but I personally think it's a pointless feat. I like rolling dice, and rolling dice is part of the system. I'd much rather have a feat that makes you just take average damage, than one that adds a bunch of levels and maximizes damage.

 

[Terath Ninir]

I think it will probably be 10 lists. Ranger Wickett persuaded me that the Create and Summon lists can be combined as one. I think it will be called Summon, 'cause you're not really "creating" something if it's only there for, say, 1 minute/level.

As for Maximize Spell, I say we go ahead and include it, myself. We don't have to use it, after all, and it will only take up the space of one feat. I don't think the benefit of the feat is good enough to justify the cost, but I think that for most metamagic. Might as well include it, so the people who like it can have it.

We'll see what happens as we continue to hash it out.

 

[Verequus]

That raises the question:

If Create [Creature] and Summon [Creature] are the same list, how undeads can be created? Have the higher spell levels permanent and eventually instanteous duration?