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"Elements of Magic" and other systems
- Thread starter Bloodstone Mage
- Start date
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
It's really, overall, a GREAT tome, with some superb ideas...
...I'm interested in the revision, too. Doing anything about the 'sorcerer problem'?
...I'm interested in the revision, too. Doing anything about the 'sorcerer problem'?
Terath Ninir
Yog Sothoth loves you
Well, sure, we plan on fixing the sorcerer problem! As soon as ENPublishing buys the D&D line from Hasbro, we'll start up the revisions on 4e D&D, and sorcerers will be the first thing we fix...
Further playtesting has shown that some of the spells, primarily the Evoke lists, are more powerful than they were intended to be. As we fix that, we will fix most of the balance issues that the mage has against the standard spellcasters. A mage from the current version will not usually unbalance a campaign if they are the only type of spellcasters used. The problem comes in when the standard classes are also used. I fully believe that the mage will be equivalent to clerics, druids, and wizards when we're done. Sorcerers will still be somewhat weaker, but they are somewhat weaker than clerics, druids, and wizards.
Clerics: We will include conversions for all of the basic spellcasting classes, for people who want to keep them but have a more flexible spellcasting system. Ranger Wickett has been working on that so far, so I am not sure what his ideas on domains are yet.
Metamagic feats: We will be going into them in a little more depth for this version. Some feats, such as Heighten Spell, don't really apply, since the EoM doesn't use the same mechanics as the base rules.
We will be providing the revised rules FREE to everyone who has purchased the original. We also will be providing a bare-bones version for free use, including only Open Content. We needed to make some basic changes. The feel and purpose of the rules is the same, but errata just won't cover the necessary changes. Those who have purchased the original version won't lose all of their value, however, since we won't be reprinting the roleplaying and campaign advice. That very excellent chapter was written by Ranger Wickett and has a lot of great information in it.
If you want to get the current version, it is available at http://www.rpgnow.com . Just go over to the all-time best sellers on the right-hand column. Last I checked, it was the 3rd all-time seller.
One of the biggest changes we're making is reducing the number of spell lists. Each list will do more but, with the rules changes we're making, they will also be easier to use. We're also going to some effort to make sure that spellcasters have an easier time being unique, but not take so long to create.
Print versions: I dunno. I'm a freelancer, so Ranger will have to answer that question.
If you've asked a question in this thread, and neither Ranger nor I have answered us, smack us in the head and we will. I tried to cover everything he hasn't already, but I may have missed something.
Further playtesting has shown that some of the spells, primarily the Evoke lists, are more powerful than they were intended to be. As we fix that, we will fix most of the balance issues that the mage has against the standard spellcasters. A mage from the current version will not usually unbalance a campaign if they are the only type of spellcasters used. The problem comes in when the standard classes are also used. I fully believe that the mage will be equivalent to clerics, druids, and wizards when we're done. Sorcerers will still be somewhat weaker, but they are somewhat weaker than clerics, druids, and wizards.
Clerics: We will include conversions for all of the basic spellcasting classes, for people who want to keep them but have a more flexible spellcasting system. Ranger Wickett has been working on that so far, so I am not sure what his ideas on domains are yet.
Metamagic feats: We will be going into them in a little more depth for this version. Some feats, such as Heighten Spell, don't really apply, since the EoM doesn't use the same mechanics as the base rules.
We will be providing the revised rules FREE to everyone who has purchased the original. We also will be providing a bare-bones version for free use, including only Open Content. We needed to make some basic changes. The feel and purpose of the rules is the same, but errata just won't cover the necessary changes. Those who have purchased the original version won't lose all of their value, however, since we won't be reprinting the roleplaying and campaign advice. That very excellent chapter was written by Ranger Wickett and has a lot of great information in it.
If you want to get the current version, it is available at http://www.rpgnow.com . Just go over to the all-time best sellers on the right-hand column. Last I checked, it was the 3rd all-time seller.
One of the biggest changes we're making is reducing the number of spell lists. Each list will do more but, with the rules changes we're making, they will also be easier to use. We're also going to some effort to make sure that spellcasters have an easier time being unique, but not take so long to create.
Print versions: I dunno. I'm a freelancer, so Ranger will have to answer that question.
If you've asked a question in this thread, and neither Ranger nor I have answered us, smack us in the head and we will. I tried to cover everything he hasn't already, but I may have missed something.
Last edited by a moderator:
RangerWickett
Legend
Yeah, the rules we'll be handing out will be pretty bare bones, but since the original book will be a good 7 or 8 months old by the time Lyceian Arcana comes out, we wanted to showcase the new rules to as many people as possible, so new users can just buy the sequel book if that's all they want, while original users can have the full package with both books.
I'm always tickled about how people ask about Clerics so much. I mean, sure, EOM can handle them just fine, but when I saw Cyberzombie's original plans for the book, my first thought was, "Thank goodness, I don't have to use clerics anymore." Heh. I just have a setting where healing magic isn't restricted like it is in D&D.
We're going to have fully reconfigured versions of the core spellcasting classes, but we're renaming them and giving them a few tweaks, so you won't have troubles if one player wants a druid, and another wants an EOM druid. So we have (tentatively) the Arcanist, Exalten, Faithblade, Godhand, and Longwalker, which replace the wizard, bard, paladin, cleric, and druid, respectively. We decided against doing another ranger, just because there are too many already.
As for metamagic feats, some of them are pointless. We don't need Enlarge, Extend, Empower, Heighten, or Widen. Maximize is a little silly too, and I think we'd rather you just cast a higher level spell to do the extra damage. We'll still have Still and Silent Spell, and . . . erm. CZ, what else do we really need?
Finally, about me doing the old Faux Tome & Blood, I never quite finished my penance for that one. I got about halfway done before Asgard went kaput, so I've been using ideas from there in pretty much everything I've written.
I'm always tickled about how people ask about Clerics so much. I mean, sure, EOM can handle them just fine, but when I saw Cyberzombie's original plans for the book, my first thought was, "Thank goodness, I don't have to use clerics anymore." Heh. I just have a setting where healing magic isn't restricted like it is in D&D.
We're going to have fully reconfigured versions of the core spellcasting classes, but we're renaming them and giving them a few tweaks, so you won't have troubles if one player wants a druid, and another wants an EOM druid. So we have (tentatively) the Arcanist, Exalten, Faithblade, Godhand, and Longwalker, which replace the wizard, bard, paladin, cleric, and druid, respectively. We decided against doing another ranger, just because there are too many already.
As for metamagic feats, some of them are pointless. We don't need Enlarge, Extend, Empower, Heighten, or Widen. Maximize is a little silly too, and I think we'd rather you just cast a higher level spell to do the extra damage. We'll still have Still and Silent Spell, and . . . erm. CZ, what else do we really need?
Finally, about me doing the old Faux Tome & Blood, I never quite finished my penance for that one. I got about halfway done before Asgard went kaput, so I've been using ideas from there in pretty much everything I've written.
*
TwoSix
Everyone's literal second-favorite poster
Two questions:
1) Why make alignment one of the descriptors? I know Alignment is one of the sacred cows of D&D, but what spells would be I missing out on, since I don't use alignments in my game?
2) The heal [Element] spell lists sound pretty weak, except for Heal Life. Maybe Heal would be better as a magical skill? Perhaps requiring Infuse with [Element] to work on Elemental creatures? Just throwing out some ideas for you, I really like EoM, can't wait for vol. 2!
1) Why make alignment one of the descriptors? I know Alignment is one of the sacred cows of D&D, but what spells would be I missing out on, since I don't use alignments in my game?
2) The heal [Element] spell lists sound pretty weak, except for Heal Life. Maybe Heal would be better as a magical skill? Perhaps requiring Infuse with [Element] to work on Elemental creatures? Just throwing out some ideas for you, I really like EoM, can't wait for vol. 2!
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Blacksad's got part of it...a 'mage' is a sorcerer with more versatility and flexability than a sorcerer could ever have, basically. So if you stick a sorcerer next to a mage, the sorcerer is going to be outclassed at his own schtick (casting a few spells a lot of the time).
It's not a HUGE problem...in a system using EOM, you don't have a need for a sorcerer...just replace it fully with mage. But it is part of the design philosophy of the book that Sorcerers are inherently a weaker class, and so overpowering them is not nessecarily a bad thing.
Like I said, not a huge problem, nothing that's campaign-disturbing, just a little something you might want to warn those in your group who adore sorcerers about, if you plan on using it side-by-side...
It's not a HUGE problem...in a system using EOM, you don't have a need for a sorcerer...just replace it fully with mage. But it is part of the design philosophy of the book that Sorcerers are inherently a weaker class, and so overpowering them is not nessecarily a bad thing.
Like I said, not a huge problem, nothing that's campaign-disturbing, just a little something you might want to warn those in your group who adore sorcerers about, if you plan on using it side-by-side...
Terath Ninir
Yog Sothoth loves you
Blacksad is refering to an argument I had about sorcerers on Nutkinland. He is a very silly French person.
As I said earlier, the current mages are more powerful than clerics and wizards, which was not our intent. We will work to balance them as closely as possible, and try not to overwhelm the sorcerer too much. As Kamikaze Midget notes, the mage does work well as a *replacement* for the sorcerer.
We're making Alignment a descriptor so that mages can use the alignment-based spells of the core rules. It's for the convenience of people who want to use rules as similar as D&D as possible. However, if you're not using alignment, you can simply pull them out and not miss anything.
The Heal lists besides Heal Life are weaker. However, they are not useless. Not all spell lists will be as good as each other, but we're going to make them as close as possible. An area effect Heal Life spell will heal every living creature in range. If you Infuse the party members with, say, Fire, and then cast Heal Fire, only the party will be cured. Somewhat specialized, yes, but it would be very useful.
As I said earlier, the current mages are more powerful than clerics and wizards, which was not our intent. We will work to balance them as closely as possible, and try not to overwhelm the sorcerer too much. As Kamikaze Midget notes, the mage does work well as a *replacement* for the sorcerer.
We're making Alignment a descriptor so that mages can use the alignment-based spells of the core rules. It's for the convenience of people who want to use rules as similar as D&D as possible. However, if you're not using alignment, you can simply pull them out and not miss anything.
The Heal lists besides Heal Life are weaker. However, they are not useless. Not all spell lists will be as good as each other, but we're going to make them as close as possible. An area effect Heal Life spell will heal every living creature in range. If you Infuse the party members with, say, Fire, and then cast Heal Fire, only the party will be cured. Somewhat specialized, yes, but it would be very useful.
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