Elements of Magic & Low Magic Setting?

[Malachias Invictus]

The nature of low-magic is that casting is much more difficult and that casters overall aren't as powerful as their D&D counterparts. Maybe you want rare magic? You can keep casters the same but significantly reduce the number of casters and magic items in the world.

Speaking for myself, I lean more towards rare magic. I want casters to be *scary*, though. However, I want magic to be somewhat uncertain, particularly the more powerful effects, and I don't want magic items created by PCs.

What about transportation magic? What about healing or raise dead? What about create water?

I want transportation magic nixed. I want the characters to have to travel. Healing has to be risky, and come with a high cost. Raise dead? NO. Create water? Sure.

I haven't looked at Elements of Magic but if you are considering anything low-magic, Grim Tales should be your first point of reference.

I am unfamiliar. Could you give a break magic system breakdown?

 

[RangerWickett]

Grim Tales is structured sorta like D20 Modern -- 6 classes divided by what ability score they favor. There aren't clear 'roles'. You can be a strong warrior, a fast warrior, a tough warrior, a smart warrior, a wise warrior, or a charismatic warrior, though each has its benefits and drawbacks (and Strong characters in general make the best melee warriors, though they don't get many tricks). And likewise you can put the 6 classes to make whatever role you want.

Magic is rare.

Characters only get access to those spells the game master lets them see. It's not, "Here's the spell list; what do you want?" It's "You're a wizard. You can levitate!" If you saw a person in the real world levitate, you wouldn't complain if that person was unable to cast magic missile.

Casting spells require a skill check. I think it's Spellcraft, or Knowledge (arcane lore). It's been a while. Anyway, if you succeed, the spell works, but you take Strength ability burn equal to 1d6 per spell level. Your Int, Wis, or Cha modifier gives you burn resistance, so that if you have an 18 Intelligence (a +4 bonus), you ignore the first 4 points of Str burn per die. Natural 1s on dice always get through, though.

When you cast a spell, the caster level is equal to the level of the spell you're casting. If you take a feat (and you can take it multiple times), the caster level increases by 1. You get a feat every 2nd and every 3rd level, I believe, so you can raise your caster level pretty quickly, at the expense of doing anything else. Just like any other spellcaster.

 

[Staffan]

So here'd be my suggestions for a low-magic, but not caster-neutered game. Bear in mind I only know of Iron Heroes from what I've read on these boards. Pick one or more options, mix em together, see what you like.

1. The easiest one is to restrict some spell lists.

That's a given. Not 100% sure about the specific restrictions you recommend, but some restrictions are in order.

4. Maybe reduce the amount of MP you get by half. Your spells are as powerful, but you have to be more conservative with when you use them.

One vague idea I've had is to halve the number of MP, and add an option to the arcanist to gather mana - something like 1 MP for a move action, and 2 MP for a standard action (possibly increasing the rate at 10th level - the other two classes who only get tokens for giving up actions, the archer and the berserker, increase that rate at 10th level). This mana could then be used to pay for up to half the cost (or maybe 3/4) for a spell. This would be give arcanists the same number of spells per day if they take their time, but less if they feel they have to hurry the spells (and who'd want to hurry spellcasting when there's a berserker frothing at the mouth and charging you?). I'd also impose some sort of penalty for just "carrying" mana, including requiring concentration and having nasty consequences if you lose that concentration.

Another thing I've thought of, in some vague fashion, would be to have Healing spells restore reserve points rather than hp, with the option of trading in dice of reserve healing for points of actual hp healing. That way, if you need to give that dying berserker a shot in the arm before his Con-boosting fury dissipates, you can do so, but efficient healing takes time. Oh, and I might consider Healed reserve points as "temporary hp" so they won't stack with another healing spell - you have to wait for the magic-boosted RP to turn to hp before getting a new load.

Oh, and I'm thinking that Evoke spells should cost double in EoM/Iron Heroes too - at least for damage, but probably not for side effects.

 

[Malachias Invictus]

Oh, and I'm thinking that Evoke spells should cost double in EoM/Iron Heroes too - at least for damage, but probably not for side effects.

I personally think that is too harsh. Elements of Magic Evoke spells are already pretty weak compared to D&D Arcane Evocation spells, at least until you are pretty high level. Also remember that Iron Heroes characters have really good touch ACs *and* really high saving throws.

 

[Staffan]

Here's a little something I threw together earlier tonight, regarding some basic changes I'd make to Elements of Magic in order to use it with Iron Heroes. I may have overlooked stuff, because I'm not all that familiar with EoM, so consider this a first draft.

• The IH arcanist class does not gain mastery levels in different schools of magic. Instead, they gain caster levels á la EoM.
• A caster does not have a limit on how many MP he can spend on a spell, other than the limit created by the number of spell lists known in that category (e.g. 5 MP for one, 10 MP for two, and so on).
• In order to cast a spell, the caster has to make a caster level + Int modifier check with a DC equal to the spell’s MP+13. If the spell’s MP are higher than the caster’s level, increase the DC by an additional 2 points per difference (so a 5th level caster attempting to cast an 8 MP spell would have a DC of 8+13+2*(8-5) = 27). Just like in Iron Heroes, failing by 10 or less causes a moderate disaster, while failing by more than 10 causes a major disaster, and rolling a 1 increases the “disaster level” by 1.
• The amount of MP a caster gets daily is halved.
• An arcanist can spend actions to gather up to half the mana required for a spell. A move action gathers 1 MP, and a standard action gathers 2 MP. At 10th level or higher, you instead gather 2 MP on a move action and 3 MP on a standard action (or 4 MP on a full-round action). Gathering or holding mana requires concentration. If you are distracted while gathering or holding mana (such as when struck by an attack), treat it as being distracted while casting a spell with an MP cost equal to the number of MP you are holding (or would be holding after your action would be completed, if you were distracted in the middle of your action, such as by a readied attack or an attack of opportunity). If you are holding mana and cast a spell you can’t spend all your mana on (e.g. you have 5 MP and cast an 8 MP spell, so you can only pay 4 of those MP with “gathered” mana), any excess mana is lost.
• If you fail a Concentration check while casting a spell (or holding mana), treat that as a failure on the casting check (i.e. creating a moderate or major disaster).
• Casters do not use signature spells. All spells take a standard action to cast. However, the DM shouldn’t hold up the game in the middle of a fight in order to let the player construct his spell. If the player doesn’t have the spell prepared ahead of time, he should have his character spend the round gathering mana or just doing nothing, while he’s working on the spell.
• Alignments do not exist in Iron Heroes. Accordingly, Abjure [alignment], Evoke [alignment], Heal [alignment], and Infuse [alignment] do not exist.
• Creating magical items or most permanent spells are beyond the capabilities of humans. Some exceptions exist, such as permanently creating creatures (using the Summon lists), but those are handled via modifications to those lists, not via the Craft Permanent Spell feat.

Changes to specific spell lists will come later, maybe

 

[genshou]

[*]Alignments do not exist in Iron Heroes. Accordingly, Abjure [alignment], Evoke [alignment], Heal [alignment], and Infuse [alignment] do not exist.

*raises hand slightly*
Don't forget Create [alignment]...

*goes back to his corner*

 

[Kaos]

I personally think that is too harsh. Elements of Magic Evoke spells are already pretty weak compared to D&D Arcane Evocation spells, at least until you are pretty high level. Also remember that Iron Heroes characters have really good touch ACs *and* really high saving throws.

Aye. Which is a concern if the PCs will frequently be going into combat against IH-classed NPCs.

If they're not, though, then they're dealing with the same touch ACs and saving throws that a core caster would be. Unclassed monsters don't get the defence progression or IH saves.

 

[Staffan]

I'm just gonna give this a bump, hoping for more comments on my list, above.