Elf lifespan, XP, level limit issues...

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't want to "hijack" BagPuss' thread, so I'll continue a discussion here:

By Larcen:
You missing my point. My point is that if Elves, for instance, COULD go up unlimited why are they not ruling the world? The gods would prevent it? Lack of desire? Sailing into the West? What? I makes no sense to me that long-lived races, with their ability to plan over the course of centuries, would not be exceedingly powerful if they had no limits to how powerful they could become.

If you must have an in-game explanation of level limits, how's this: The gods, when dolling out the advantages each primary race got at the creation of the world, gave elves long life at the expensive of high power. Humans, on the other hand, were flash-in-pans by comparision. How's that?

Nah... that leads to every single 300 year old elven mage being 15th-level. Too bad 2e didn't have ECL.

Another note: 2e didn't have such a thing as front-loading, because of the multiclass system they had.

It didn't matter to them that elves were better than humans at first level but weaker at higher level. It mattered to me, though - the elf would leave the campaign at 15th-level (if mage) or lowver (if rogue or fighter).

Sean K Reynolds has a nice analysis of this on his site.

 

[DonAdam]

There are so many examples of people accomplishing more in a 30 year life span than other do in a 100 year lifespan in our own world that it's hard for me to buy that elves would rule the world.

Remember that they reproduce slowly. Also remember that it's easy to tire of a particular task after so many years.

Finally, remember that elves don't want to rule the world. They want to sit around and write poetry while engaging in trite sexual filanderings.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

They want to sit around and write poetry while engaging in trite sexual filanderings.

I thought they wanted to be made into pies.

Oh man.. how embarrassing..

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Recommend changing the thread title ... we don't need any edition wars here.

 

[Celebrim]

Reproductive rate.

 

[Psion]

Two points... extended age does not mean that the character will rocket to high levels. It takes more than time alive to gather XP. In the D&D core system, it takes risk-taking. In the 3e demographics, most NPCs are 1st level commoners.

Now what does not make sense to me is that elves have the same experience as a much younger human. In my game, elven and dwarven NPCs average 1-2 levels higher than human NPCs. Some people, when I mention this, ask the same question: why don't they rule the world?

First off, elves don't live in a vacuum, and they are far from the first in the pecking order in a fantasy world filled with dragons, giants, ogres, and mind flayers.

Second, they can't do everything themselves. They are not numerous, and do not breed fast. Taking over the world entails war, war entails risk. With a low reproduction and growth rate, elves can't afford many extended battles of attrition.

Third, depending on your world, they essentially already do. In the typical D&D setup, humans and elves are friendly. I see this as more or less manipulation of the humans to see that the more populous race comes between them and any harm.

Finally, the typical alignment of elves is chaotic good. To me, that means that they aren't real keen on imposing their own governance on others.


There are a host of reasons that elves would not dominate the world. To me, that's just an excuse for an outdated mechanic, and an excuse that doesn't bear much scrutiny.

 

[Uller]

A little of the topic, but not off the title of the thread...

In 2e there was also the concept of dual classing...which was sort of like 3e multiclassing (except that you could never again gain levels in your old class and were not allowed to use abilties from you old class until you've achieve equivelent level in your new one...)

But here was the rub...only humans could dual-class (ie. switch classes) and demi-humans could multiclass (advance in two classes at the same time). This makes no sense when you consider elves...here is this race that is very very long lived and you want to tell me that they can't change career paths after a few centuries?

 

[El Ravager]

But here was the rub...only humans could dual-class (ie. switch classes) and demi-humans could multiclass (advance in two classes at the same time). This makes no sense when you consider elves...here is this race that is very very long lived and you want to tell me that they can't change career paths after a few centuries?

This always seemed backwards to me too. Shouldn't the race with the short lifespan be trying to do multiple things at once (multiclassing) while the longer lifespan classes would be exhausting their interest in one profession and taking up another (Dual classing)?

The way it worked in 2e never made much sense to me. Then again, very little made sense in 2e....

 

[Zappo]

I can't even imagine the utter boredom of following the same profession for 500 years. I bet most 2e elves sooner or later wake up one morning, consider the perspective of the millionth day spent casting fireballs, and then jump down a cliff.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I can't even imagine the utter boredom of following the same profession for 500 years. I bet most 2e elves sooner or later wake up one morning, consider the perspective of the millionth day spent casting fireballs, and then jump down a cliff.

They do, but most of them forget they cast a permanent featherfall on themselves a century or so ago.