ELH Complaint: Damage Reduction Feat

[Kai Lord]

I really don't like that the Epic Fighter can take this feat as one of his fighter feats that he gets every other level. DR is something that balances the Barbarian against the Fighter, but an epic fighter can easily get insane amounts of DR, not only equalling the Barbarian but surpassing him, even a barbarian that spends all of his few feats on DR!

DR used to be one of the major rewards for sticking it out as a single-classed Barbarian. Now its in the best interest of the Barbarian to multiclass to fighter early on. If he uses Masters of the Wild, he can just spend a couple of feats on Extra Rage and qualify for some of the epic rage feats later on as well (Thundering Rage, Terrifying Rage, and Chaotic Rage.) That kind of sucks for the guys who busted their asses as a straight Barbarian for 20 levels.

 

[Crothian]

But there are so many other great feats for a fighter to aquire. It would have been nice if the feat required natural DR for the feat.

 

[Kai Lord]

But there are so many other great feats for a fighter to aquire. It would have been nice if the feat required natural DR for the feat.

I know. Yes, the are many other feats for the fighter, so what incentive is there for a low-level barbarian to not multiclass and spend the next 20 levels as a fighter? If a raging DR badass was his character concept, it appears he's better off leaving the class that was centered on the concept. Do you agree?

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

actually if you want a high DR, go for a dwarven defender, by 30th level (20 levels of defender) you could have a DR 30/-, thats massive. He'll beat anyone in the DR race.

and if you run the dwarven defender class another 10 levels past 30th, his godlike DR will break the game, IMO.

Damage reduction is my favorite class ability when playing PC and NPCs. But having the option of getting 3/-, and being able to stack it multiple times with any other DR x/- bothers me some. But then again, you are giving up alot of interesting feats. I guess playing such a character would become VERY boring.

 

[Crothian]

I know. Yes, the are many other feats for the fighter, so what incentive is there for a low-level barbarian to not multiclass and spend the next 20 levels as a fighter? If a raging DR badass was his character concept, it appears he's better off leaving the class that was centered on the concept. Do you agree?

Well, the concept makes sense for the first 20 levels to take straight barbarian. If you need a few levels in barbarian (for however much of the rage ability you need) plus 20 levels of fighter (you need that many before you can use their bonus feats for epic feats) to cplete your character concept, well it just seems to difficult. Sure, the fighter willeventually be able to do it better, but from levels 11-24 (or something like that) the straight barbarian can have a higher DR. Now, if you set out knowing that your character is going from 1st to 30th or you are creating an epic level character from scratch it might be better to do some barbarian and the rest fighter. However, if you are just starting a game and really don't know how long it will last, a straight barbarian would be best.

 

[Kai Lord]

actually if you want a high DR, go for a dwarven defender, by 30th level (20 levels of defender) you could have a DR 27/-, thats massive. He'll beat anyone in the DR race.

A straight fighter who puts all fighter class and character feats in DR will also have a 27/- at 30th level.

and if you run the dwarven defender class another 10 levels past 30th, his godlike DR will break the game, IMO.

At least they're somewhat balanced by the fact that dwarves are dorks as anything other than supporting characters.

Damage reduction is my favorite class ability when playing PC and NPCs. But having the option of getting 3/-, and being able to stack it multiple times with any other DR x/- bothers me some. But then again, you are giving up alot of interesting feats. I guess playing such a character would become VERY boring.

Agreed. Playing a near literal representation of Superman in a fantasy campaign could work, but the campaign would have to be specifically tailored to allow for that. A "Spawn" type character with all kinds of emotional melodrama and foes from beyond time would work, but a whole lot of other concepts wouldn't.

 

[Crothian]

At such high levels DR will protect you, but there are enough other ways to damage through spells or special abilities that it probably would not be unbalancing.

 

[Kai Lord]

Well, the concept makes sense for the first 20 levels to take straight barbarian. If you need a few levels in barbarian (for however much of the rage ability you need) plus 20 levels of fighter (you need that many before you can use their bonus feats for epic feats) to cplete your character concept, well it just seems to difficult. Sure, the fighter willeventually be able to do it better, but from levels 11-24 (or something like that) the straight barbarian can have a higher DR. Now, if you set out knowing that your character is going from 1st to 30th or you are creating an epic level character from scratch it might be better to do some barbarian and the rest fighter. However, if you are just starting a game and really don't know how long it will last, a straight barbarian would be best.

Heh. Very good point. The reason it stuck out for me is because I don't think of cool "1st level characters" to play. I imagine character concepts at the peak of their adventuring careers, then build up from there. This works dramatically because then I know I'll end up with a character doing just the dramatic things I want to do and it makes paying dues in those lower levels a reward in and of themselves.

 

[Crothian]

Heh. Very good point. The reason it stuck out for me is because I don't think of cool "1st level characters" to play. I imagine character concepts at the peak of their adventuring careers, then build up from there. This works dramatically because then I know I'll end up with a character doing just the dramatic things I want to do and it makes paying dues in those lower levels a reward in and of themselves.

I understand perfectly. My new character has a prestige class already picked out. Heck, I was looking through the epic prestige classes for one that fits my concept (and it angers me to know there is none, even using the Dragon mag that has more in it). We all know there is more then one way to fullfill a character concept through the mult class system.

 

[jontherev]

Why play a straight barbarian? Well, there's an epic feat that lets you IGNORE the hardness of weapons when sundering while raging!

So, basically, a 21st level barbarian could destroy ANY weapon in the game in 1 strike probably, provided his weapon's enhancement bonus was high enough. True, he doesn't need all barbarian levels, but it only helps him rage better and more. Note, this would even shatter most adamantine weapons most likely.

I think I'd rather take my chances fighting a 21st level fighter so that I have something to strike back with.