[ELH] Epic Spell: Epic Magic Weapon

[Hammerhead]

I'm working on a spell that's like Greater Magic Weapon, but with an epic enhancement. Characters that are new to Epic levels - early twenties - will be facing foes with +6 or greater DR, but don't have access to those weapons. A simple +6 weapon is the entire wealth of a 20th level character, and a 21st level guy doesn't have much more. Also, characters in that level range can't take the Craft Epic arms and armor feat to craft their own items. So I think the spell fills a gap.

Base Seed: Fortify

Modified base DC (from a sorcerer casting Greater Magic Weapon): 19

The Fortify Seed costs an extra +2 DC for each +1 enhancement bonus. However, that doesn't mention weapons, so it may need to be recosted.

Moderate Epic Weapon

Fortify: DC 19
+8 enhancement: +16 DC
double duration to 40 hours: +2 DC
duration is (D): +2

DC 39
Cost to research: 351 000 GP, 14 040 XP, 8 days

Casting time: 1 min
Range: Touch

Hmm, it seems maybe a bit too good. Since Epic spells are so tough to dispel, unlike GMW, the spell is giving a semi permanent +8 enhancement bonus to a weapon or two, a value of 1.28 million each. On the other hand, GMW can turn a +1 weapon with +9 in various effects into a +14 equivalent weapon, which costs almost 4 million. Rings of Counterspelling, spell turning, etc can ward against dispels. And that GMW doesn't cost 351k GP and 14k XP to develop. Still, +8 seems like alot.

Maybe a +3 DC adjustment per each plus will work better. This DC scale also fits with the scaling scheme of GMW in +1 per 3 levels.

DC 19
double duration +2
+7 to a weapon +21

DC 42

Cost: 378 000 GP and 15120 XP, 8 days.

That seems a bit better. It's still a useful effect, but is a bit weaker and costs more. It seems more in line with the other epic spells, particularly Epic Mage Armor.

However, it still seems too cheap to upgrade. Costs tend to increase exponentially for other things. Weapons are based off bonus squared. Epic spells, which could increase damage linearly, are also going to need boosts to save DCs and caster level checks in order to be useful. On the other hand, increasing the DC adjustment per plus makes it incredibly expensive to replicate a simple 3rd level cast at 15th level, much less gain an actual advantage.

Maybe +2 DC per plus up to +5 and +4 DC per plus after that would better reflect the difference between normal and Epic stuff, and make it more expensive to scale the spell.

DC 19
+5 weapon +10
+7 weapon +8
40 hour duration +2

DC 39

Any ideas?

 

[Geoff Watson]

I'd use +2 as the base (Minimum GMW for a Sor is +2).

+3 DC per extra plus, up to +5 (GMW needs three caster levels per extra plus).
+30 DC per extra plus, over +5 (Extra plusses cost a lot more; 10 times as much.)

If it isn't really high, Epic Weapons become redundant.

Geoff.

 

[Hammerhead]

Good idea. That makes appropriately trivial to duplicate GMW, but difficult to make +6 weapons, and especially difficult to make super powerful weapons.

Of course, it could be argued that GMW can already make +5 enhancement bonuses redudant.

So the spell might look like this:

DC 19
+2 weapon to +5 weapon: +6 DC
+7 weapon: +30
40 hour duration: +2

equals 57 DC

Throw in some mitigating factors, probably increased casting time since the spell is non combat anyway, and the spell works pretty well. A 10 minute casting time drops the DC to 39, and 4d6 damage brings it to a nice, round 35.

 

[Taluron]

"Cost: 378 000 GP and 15120 XP, 8 days."

If they don't have the money for a weapon how do they pay for this?

 

[Geoff Watson]

"Cost: 378 000 GP and 15120 XP, 8 days."

If they don't have the money for a weapon how do they pay for this?

That's about half the cost of a +6 weapon.
About a third of a +7 weapon.

Geoff.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I'd use +2 as the base (Minimum GMW for a Sor is +2).

+3 DC per extra plus, up to +5 (GMW needs three caster levels per extra plus).
+30 DC per extra plus, over +5 (Extra plusses cost a lot more; 10 times as much.)

If it isn't really high, Epic Weapons become redundant.

Geoff.

I like your reasoning! I'll have to try it out, but I think this will help "scale up" a lot of other spells into epic proportions.

I get different numbers than Hammerhead, though:

DC 19
+2 weapon to +5 weapon: +9 DC
+6 weapon: +30
40 hour duration: +2

equals 60 DC

+7 weapon would be 90 DC
+8 weapon would be 120 DC
+9 weapon would be 150 DC
+10 weapon would be 180 DC

Now those are some epic DC's!

I don't know if these are too high or not. I'm still thinking about whether there should be magic items that boost spellcraft scores, and if so, whether there should be a cap on them. Without such an item, the better versions of this spell would be uncastable until your level was in the triple digits.

 

[-Eä-]

I'd use +2 as the base (Minimum GMW for a Sor is +2).

+3 DC per extra plus, up to +5 (GMW needs three caster levels per extra plus).
+30 DC per extra plus, over +5 (Extra plusses cost a lot more; 10 times as much.)

If it isn't really high, Epic Weapons become redundant.

Geoff.

Personally, I think this gives too high DCs for high bonuses. As stated later, 180 DC for +10, which in my opinion is too high.

Why not give nothing as base and use the +2 DC per bonus point and +20 for that over +6.

+1 Base
+2 DC per extra plus up to +5
+20 DC per extra plus over +5

+6 weapon:
19 (base)
+8 (to +5)
+20 (to +6)
47

+7
67

etc...


I think this is more in balance than +30 to the DC.

 

[Hammerhead]

"Cost: 378 000 GP and 15120 XP, 8 days."

If they don't have the money for a weapon how do they pay for this?

First of all, as Geoff Watson pointed out, +6 weapons are much more expensive.

Also, most characters that are going from 20th level to 21st are going to have weapons that aren't geared for Epic use. Instead of a +5 sword waiting for the upgrade to +6 so it can beat the DR of even relatively weak epic monsters, they're going to have things like +5 Holy Frost Shock swords, or a +3 Speed Keen rapier. Increasing weapons that are around +10 or +9 equivalent to +6 will cost a million or two. They shouldn't have to set aside weapons that they've been using for while because they can't be upgraded to usefulness.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I like your reasoning! I'll have to try it out, but I think this will help "scale up" a lot of other spells into epic proportions.

I get different numbers than Hammerhead, though:

DC 19
+2 weapon to +5 weapon: +9 DC
+6 weapon: +30
40 hour duration: +2

equals 60 DC

+7 weapon would be 90 DC
+8 weapon would be 120 DC
+9 weapon would be 150 DC
+10 weapon would be 180 DC

Now those are some epic DC's!

I don't know if these are too high or not. I'm still thinking about whether there should be magic items that boost spellcraft scores, and if so, whether there should be a cap on them. Without such an item, the better versions of this spell would be uncastable until your level was in the triple digits.

+30 to Spellcraft items are relatively cheap (18000gp).
Those DCs don't include any mitigating factors.

A 21st level caster could easily have +60 to Spellcraft (+24 ranks, +6 stat, +30 item).
Include some mitigating factors, and they could easily cast the +7 version.

The +6 and +7 versions are probably too easy, and the more powerful versions too hard.

Maybe make it +10 per plus over 5, with an extra +50 for going over the plus 5 limit.

Geoff.