ELH is what Core DnD should be like.

[Zerovoid]

I wish the PHB was constructed like the ELH. It has so many of the changes that people say should have been made to 3rd edition, but were kept because they were sacred cows.

All the classes are now feat based like the fighter, so they are totally customizable. The only abilities that aren't feats are things that are totally generic, like the rogue's sneak attack, or the barbarian's DR.

Spellcasting is entirely skill and feat based, and there is a system for making up whatever spells you want.

Basically, the whole Epic system is focused around skills and feats, which is how I think things should be. Why aren't the classes constructed like this below 20th level?

 

[LordAO]

I agree that characters should be customizable. But there is a certain backbone of each class that defines what that class is. I like when classes have unique abilities and special advantages and disadvantages. It makes everything unique. If the game were completely based around feats, you'd just end up with no classes at all. Third edition went a long way to making things flexible, while still keeping distinctiveness and flavor. They still allow you a tremendous amount of flexibility in customizing your character. No two barabarians are alike, though they are still both barbarians and will always have some things in common. I think the way the did the core rules is just about right, but to be honest im kind of worried that the epic level handbook will just make everything "bleh" because there are no longer any more unique class abilities to look forward to, just a whole lot of feats to choose from. And I've always preferred the distinctiveness of specific and unique spells over just a giant blob of a free form magic system. No longer is a certain spell unique, just another combination of spell seeds.

 

[nsruf]

While I think that a more customizable, feat-based approach would be nice for lower level play, I have doubts whether it is still manageable at higher levels. I don't have the ELH yet, but I would be interested to know how complicated things will get. Is it really possible to create and play epic characters (let alone hordes of NPCs) and not go nuts keeping track of the details?

 

[LostSoul]

I don't have the ELH yet, but I would be interested to know how complicated things will get. Is it really possible to create and play epic characters (let alone hordes of NPCs) and not go nuts keeping track of the details?

I think it would be easier. You assign feats and skills to a character based on character concept, not having to worry about what class to take or what level to make this guy. Just plop down the feats & skills and you're off to party.

 

[LostSoul]

But there is a certain backbone of each class that defines what that class is. I like when classes have unique abilities and special advantages and disadvantages. It makes everything unique.

Two Monks are very similar. Two Fighters can be, but probably aren't. So while a Monk is going to be very different from characters of other classes, two Monks are going to be very similar. You get my point.

 

[mmadsen]

The only abilities that aren't feats are things that are totally generic, like the rogue's sneak attack, or the barbarian's DR.

Huh?

 

[mmadsen]

I wish the PHB was constructed like the ELH. It has so many of the changes that people say should have been made to 3rd edition, but were kept because they were sacred cows.

All the classes are now feat based like the fighter, so they are totally customizable....Why aren't the classes constructed like this below 20th level?

Well, the obvious answer is that the designers of 3E didn't want to stray too far from D&D's roots. Now that they've seen how well many of their changes got accepted, they might think they should've gone farther -- more classes with Bonus Feats, fewer core classes, etc.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I wish the PHB was constructed like the ELH. It has so many of the changes that people say should have been made to 3rd edition, but were kept because they were sacred cows.

Basically, the whole Epic system is focused around skills and feats, which is how I think things should be. Why aren't the classes constructed like this below 20th level?

Because people like you weren't hired to write the PHB.

If you want a different PHB, start typing.

 

[Droogie]

While I think that a more customizable, feat-based approach would be nice for lower level play, I have doubts whether it is still manageable at higher levels. I don't have the ELH yet, but I would be interested to know how complicated things will get. Is it really possible to create and play epic characters (let alone hordes of NPCs) and not go nuts keeping track of the details?

I wonder about this too. Since it is no longer impossible to get to level 20, I fully acknowledge and understand a need for an epic level book. But is the system beginning to strain under the weight of its own rules? Is the game still playable?

Void: A skill-based system and a class-based system is a matter of preference. I like classes for D&D because you can just choose one and go. A skill based system for D&D would make prep time and NPC design a nightmare. IMO.

 

[LordAO]

Two Monks are very similar. Two Fighters can be, but probably aren't. So while a Monk is going to be very different from characters of other classes, two Monks are going to be very similar. You get my point.

True, some classes are more narrow focused than others. To be honest I've always wondered why the Monk and Paladin aren't prestige classes. But even then, two Monks can be pretty different, especially with the options in Oriental Adventures, and if the Monk is multiclass, it makes for even more interesting combinations.