Emotional Attachment

[GSHamster]

It is also about shaping the future.

Look at the current 3E vs. 4E war. A huge part of the war is about defining the future of D&D. Neither side wants to lose the things they find fun about their edition.

Similarly Mac vs Linux vs Windows. Support for an operating system translates into resources for that operating system which makes life better for those people who use that system. So users do their best to evangelize and raise more support, especially for the smaller systems.

Another example is programming languages. The more popular a language is, the better support you have, like IDEs and compilers. So if you really like a specific language, it is important to drum up support for that language, because it will eventually make the environment better for you.

 

[Umbran]

It is also about shaping the future.

In a horribly overfocused way. Yes, the future of gaming is shaped by what rule sets gain prominence. However it is also shaped by the relationships among gamers. What good is having your desired rules, if you turn the community toxic in the process?

 

[DaveMage]

It is also about shaping the future.

Look at the current 3E vs. 4E war. A huge part of the war is about defining the future of D&D. Neither side wants to lose the things they find fun about their edition.

I think that was true with the onset of 4E, but I'm not sure it's as true now.

Those who don't like 4E have moved on. 4E fans have way more to lose with 5E since no 3rd party has a way to support them like, say, Paizo/Pathfinder did with 3.x fans or the way the various pulishers did for the OSR crowd.

The only entity that *needs* 5E to be anything is WotC since the 4E business model failed to meet their revenue expectations.

 

[GSHamster]

In a horribly overfocused way. Yes, the future of gaming is shaped by what rule sets gain prominence. However it is also shaped by the relationships among gamers. What good is having your desired rules, if you turn the community toxic in the process?

Yeah, but most people have no real power. It's really the only way they can contribute to the struggle to define the future.

And I would suggest that having desired rules and toxic (internet) community is a better outcome for you than the reverse. The desired rules make your weekly gaming fun. You can take or leave the internet community.

While the reverse, a happy internet community, but a weekly game you don't enjoy, well that seems like a less attractive option to me. Not to mention that the internet community will always be up in arms about something, so you may as well get your desired rules.

 

[Oryan77]

I am tied to 3.5e because I know the system, I like the system, I can do everything I want with the system, and I can't stand learning new rules. There really isn't any reason for me to change systems. When 3.5 first came out, I was blown away at how much easier it was to learn than 2e and it made being a DM easier in turn. The flip side though was that it also made DMing harder since the players were able to learn the rules easier; which meant more rules lawyers. But that is a player issue, not a problem with the system.

Of course, there is also all the prep work I have done to help make running my game easier which is also a factor. I don't mind recreating that work, but simply having new rules isn't going to entice me to recreate my prep work.

I own all the 3.5 books. But I can sell material things and use the money to buy new things. So money isn't really a factor for me. I may not be able to afford all the new things right away. But if I wanted them, I can save for it and get it all over time.

I usually stick with things I like and am not easily swayed to try out something else just cause it is new & different. So I'm pretty sure my marriage will last. Oh, we're talking about D&D?

I don't really care how popular my system is other than hoping I'll always have players that want to play in my games. I have plenty of resources and I have no need to buy anything new as far as rulebooks go. I don't even need 3.5 published adventures. Luckily TSR created a crapload of good adventures that are not that difficult to convert.

 

[Umbran]

Yeah, but most people have no real power. It's really the only way they can contribute to the struggle to define the future.

The only way they contribute is to be jerks?

There are times and places when it may be worthwhile to drop civility to get things done. I do not count hobby gaming among them.

And I would suggest that having desired rules and toxic (internet) community is a better outcome for you than the reverse. The desired rules make your weekly gaming fun. You can take or leave the internet community.

I don't believe the issue was limited to the internet community.

 

[Glade Riven]

It's not. Every decently sized group of people has a small minority of very vocal unhappy-with-everything jerks. I know I've felt discouraged from posting on Enworld's 5e forum because of those individuals more interested in fighting/trolling than actually discussing something. Mods and admins do what they can, but it can't be fun running a forum when a few individuals turn it toxic.

One thing I do like about Enworld is that the staff are actively discouraging the toxicity rather than exasperating it. I've been on forums like that. Not fun.

 

[Janx]

It's not. Every decently sized group of people has a small minority of very vocal unhappy-with-everything jerks. I know I've felt discouraged from posting on Enworld's 5e forum because of those individuals more interested in fighting/trolling than actually discussing something. Mods and admins do what they can, but it can't be fun running a forum when a few individuals turn it toxic.

One thing I do like about Enworld is that the staff are actively discouraging the toxicity rather than exasperating it. I've been on forums like that. Not fun.

In the software business, I've seen that behavior. We call it the Cranky Old Guy. It's not always an old guy, and not all old guys are cranky. But more often than not, the cranky person is an older guy.

For developers, it expresses itself as the guy on the project who constantly fights against the project. We shouldn't do it this way, we don't need to be doing this project anyway, etc.

While they see it as lending the wisdom of their experience, what tends to be going on is that they had mastery of the old system, are closer to retirement, and don't want to relearn and go back to beginning of the knowledge curve where they aren't so valuable.

If you don't convert of get rid of these people, you project has an uphill battle and will likely fail, proving them right. If you get rid of them, your project will run more smoothly and will be more likely to suceed because any of the challenges the cranky person rightly pointed out will be overcome by motivated individuals.

When implementing software for business change, you'll see the Cranky Old Guy effect among users as well. They don't see the value of the new system over the old. And they will rile up the user base because of it. Once again, you need to identify them, and eject them if they can't be converted.

the similarities with software and D&D editions continues. I've found that most process transformations don't make things faster for the workers. In fact, it will feel harder to fill out screens than to scribble on paper. What usually improves is information capture, tracking and reporting. Upstream management concerns. The other impetus for change is technology retirement. New stuff comes out and you can't get developers to work on the old stuff. A business needs to rewrite its software JUST to get off the old stuff so they can find talent to continue maintaining their stuff. Try finding a VB6 programmer or mainframe guy.

If you were Monte Cook, would you really want to keep writing 2e stuff? It's a smaller market, and the new stuff has better tools.

If you were WotC, would you really want to support the old platforms, or just one current edition?

If you were a player, do you really need to buy a new PH, when the one you have works fine?